📖 Whether They Listen or Not, Ezek 2:5, Jn 12:48, Mt 18:17: Church Discipline's Part of Great Commission, Disciples Made By Teaching All, Mt 28:19-20

[Nochaeld]

Whether They Listen or Not, Ezek 2:5, Jn 12:48, Mt 18:17: Church Discipline's Part of Great Commission, Disciples Made By Teaching All, Mt 28:19-20... Obey Christ and Warn Them, Whether They Listen or Not, Ezek 2:5, Response to Word is What Judges on That Day, Jn 12:48, If Don't Listen to Two or Three Witnesses, Bring before Church, Mt 18:17 -- Church Discipline is Part of The Great Commission (Go and Make Disciples of All Nations, Baptizing Them in The Name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, TEACHING Them to Obey EVERYTHING I Have Commanded, Matt 28:19-20... "We can't 'Pick and Choose' as we Bring the Good News..."

Reason of Church Discipline, Mt 18:16-17: Obedience to EVERYTHING Christ Taught IS the WAY we MAKE DISCIPLES in The Great Commission, Mt 28:19-20... I've been sending messages to the person with authority there, they've replied by mentioning two vague points of polite, generalities... Their posts are a way of speaking to me in a way, almost a response, but I still am asking for obedience to all that Jesus commanded, Matt 28:20, specifically Matt 18:16-17 to be carried out, especially for the chance of bringing her to repentance and holiness in the community, 1 Jn 1:5-10.

We do not speak or remain silent based upon the person's or people's ability to listen or not, Ezek 2:5-6, Ezek 2:7. In fact, God speaks to and warns the whole human race from Adam and Eve up to present, whether they listen or not. Consider first: He did warn Adam and Eve knowing they'd not obey, correct? Yes, for "The Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world," Rev 13:8

And Moses, was he not told by The LORD to speak to pharaoh and explicitly told by God he would not listen? Ex 3:1-4:22. In fact, is not the record of The Children of Israel in the wilderness not a case study of the inability of Israel to harken unto the voice of The LORD through Moses? It is repeated in MANY Psalms and by Stephen at his defense and martyrdom, Acts 7:51. All their bodies fell in the wilderness for that exact reason, save (except for) Joshua and Caleb -- all this is a testimony that God and his people spoke whether others listened or not...

The Book of Joshua is filled with those who did not fully carry out his instructions, from Ai, to even Joshua himself was fooled by the Gibeonites masquerading as having traveled from a foreign land and a testimony that even Joshua "leaning on his own understanding," rather than "inquiring of The LORD," which David was also hit and miss in his best quality? (David did not "always" inquire of The LORD, certainly didn't regarding Bathsheba, Uriah, and even missed the warnings of Joab who had enough sense to counsel David to not number the people?).

The History of Israel, the Psalms and Prophets, even everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction, Rom 15:4, 1 Cor 10:11. Jesus referred to the fathers of those who sought to kill him that built the tombs of the prophets as a testimony to the fact they spoke the truth under fear of death. he whole of Lamentations is that Jeremiah's life was a testament to his speaking truth, rising morning by morning, warning people of whom only a small minority heard -- repeatedly demonstrating we are to say "this is what the LORD says" or the older, "Thus says The LORD" irregardless of the reaction it has.

This was obviously most clearly demonstrated in the life of Jesus, who, even though perfect, and "the world was made by Him, the world did not receive Him," John 1:10 -- And -- "He came to His own, but His own did not receive Him," John 1:11.

Did everyone listen to "The 70" he sent out? No. That's why he said to shake off the dirt of your feet as a testimony against them. It was implied they would have opposition. James and John wanted to call down fire upon a city (Sons of Thunder). Thankfully Jesus rebuked them, Lk 9:54-55. Reception, popularity, public opinion -- none of that was the point, but to testify to the world and command they repent for The Kingdom of God was at hand, with miracles to prove it. Jesus was not "running for office" and God forbid we give in to that vain-glory, John 5:44, Jn 7:18, Jn 12:43, Gal 1:10.

The Bible is not "anthropocentric" (man-centered), it is "Theocentric" (God centered). It is not "Seeker-Sensitive." Therefore we speak, like the Apostles, Good Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers and Missionaries throughout the ages until present, "whether they listen or not," Isa 6:9-10, Jer 7:27, Ezek 3:11, Amos 7:14-15, Amos 7:16-17. Jesus summarized the entire point and sheds the most sublime truth about our mission: "The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the Word which I spoke. The Word itself will judge him on the last day," John 12:48. It's not about "whether they listen or not," but God is looking at two things, whether or not we obey The Great Commission, which is not merely to "Go" or even "And make Disciples" nor "Baptizing them" but "teaching them to observe everything I have commanded" Matt 28:19-20, and knowing "I am with You even to the End of the Age."

One can go on from the first message recorded at Pentecost of Peter and the Apostles, where after a heavy message, 3,000 repented and were baptized, (not all the hearers repented, the estimated hearers were 10,000 to 50,000 -- so between 6% and 33%). We see this in Paul repeatedly, "When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord spread throughout that region," Acts 13:48, see also Acts 17:34, Acts 18:8. In fact, even "The Two Witnesses" in Revelation prophesy "until they have finished their testimony" and they are killed, Rev 11:7, and it seems the majority of earth rejoice in their death to the point of celebration and gift-giving, Rev 11:10, and though they are raised from the dead and carried up to heaven after death, as it is appointed unto all people to die once and face judgement, Heb 9:27 -- they obviously spoke the truth "whether the people listened or not," Ezek 2:5, Luke 21:15.

Therefore let us "gird-up" and prepare our minds for action, being sober, and set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 1 peter 1:13. Part of this is the reality of why we are to obey sharing "the Word of our testimonies" in overcoming the opposition of the enemy, Rev 12:11. Luke 21:12-15, "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist." Father, Strengthen this ### to fear and obey You in carrying out all Your commands, whether they listen or not, Ezek 2:5.

We ask they listen, but our goal is to speak the truth in love, regardless of how they treated You, Jesus, as God in the flesh John 1:14, perfect in wisdom, love and knowledge, Col 2:9 -- or Your servants, "The one who receives you receives Me," Matt 10:40, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his Master, nor is a messenger greater than The One who sent him," John 13:16, "Remember the word that I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well," John 15:20. With thanksgiving we request this and thank You in advance for not only the answers, Mark 11:24, but for Your Peace, John 14:27, which passes all comprehension to guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus' Name, Phil 4:6-7, Amen, Rev 3:14, 2 Cor 1:20.

 

[Articles]

We join with you in this burden and we agree that you have spoken what is true and biblical. We hear your heart for obedience to everything Christ commanded and for the holiness of His church, and we stand with you in asking that those with authority will obey the Lord whether others listen or not.

You are right that the Great Commission is not partial obedience. We are commanded in Matt 28:19-20 to go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you, and behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. We cannot pick and choose what to teach. Church discipline as given in Matt 18:15-17 is part of teaching them to observe all things. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the assembly. If he refuses to hear the assembly also, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector, Matt 18:17. This is given for restoration and for holiness, that there may be repentance and that fellowship in the light may be restored, for if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin, 1 John 1:7.

We also agree that our calling is to speak faithfully whether they listen or not. As it is written, they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, for they are a rebellious house, yet shall know that there has been a prophet among them, Ezek 2:5. And Jesus Himself said, he who rejects me, and does not receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke will judge him in the last day, John 12:48. Our responsibility is obedience and faithful witness, the results belong to God. You rightly recalled that God warned Adam and Eve knowing they would disobey, that He told Moses that Pharaoh would not listen in Ex 3:19, that Israel in the wilderness largely did not harken and their bodies fell in the wilderness, and that the prophets and even our perfect Lord were rejected, for the world was made through him, and the world did not recognize him. He came to his own, and those who were his own did not receive him, John 1:10-11. We are not called to be seeker sensitive or to seek the favor of men, for am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? For if I were still pleasing men, I would not be a servant of Christ, Gal 1:10. And how can you believe, who receive glory from one another, and you do not seek the glory that comes from the only God, John 5:44.

We understand your concern that you have appealed privately to the one with authority and have received only vague generalities, while hoping that public posts might be a response. We pray that the Lord will give that leader courage to inquire of the Lord and not lean on his own understanding, to not fear man but to fear God, and to carry out Matt 18:16-17 fully and in love for the soul of this woman and for the purity of the community. For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that through perseverance and through encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope, Rom 15:4, and these things happened to them by way of example, and they were written for our admonition, 1 Cor 10:11.

We pray together now for this situation.

Father, in the name of Jesus Christ we come before Your throne of grace and we ask You to strengthen the one in authority to fear You and obey You in carrying out all Your commands, whether they listen or not. Give him a mouth and wisdom which no adversary can contradict or resist, as You promised in Luke 21:15, and let him settle in his heart to be faithful to Your Word as an occasion for testimony, Luke 21:13. We pray that he will love this woman enough to warn her and to follow the steps You commanded for discipline and restoration, that she may be brought to repentance, to walk in the light and to have fellowship cleansed by the blood of Jesus. We pray that he will not seek the glory of men, John 12:43, but will seek the glory that comes from You alone. We pray for this woman, that she would hear Your voice, confess her sin, and find that You are faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, 1 John 1:9. We pray for the whole community, that it would be built up as disciples who observe everything You commanded, and that Your peace which passes all understanding would guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus, Phil 4:7. Help us all to gird up the waist of our mind, be sober and set our hope fully on the grace that will be brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 1 Pet 1:13, and to overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony, Rev 12:11. We thank You in advance for Your answer and for Your presence with us even to the end of the age. We ask this in Jesus name, amen.

 

[hostadmin]

We hear the weight you are carrying and your desire to see Jesus honored in how His people live and care for one another. Wanting truth spoken in love and wanting holiness for someone you care about is a good burden, and it is also exhausting when you have reached out and only received general, polite replies that do not seem to address what is on your heart.

It makes sense that their posts feel like indirect answers. When communication stays vague it can leave you wondering whether you have been heard at all. We appreciate your willingness to keep speaking faithfully and also to leave the response in God's hands, even when that is discouraging.

One gentle next step that may help bring some peace is to pause the repeated messages for now. You could write a single, brief and gracious summary of your concern for the leader you have contacted, keep a copy for your records, and then step back to pray and entrust the matter to the Lord and to those with responsibility there. It can also help to share the situation confidentially with one mature, steady believer who knows you well, not to build a case but to get perspective and prayer support so you do not carry this alone.

Father, we lift this friend to You and ask for wisdom, clear conscience, and rest in Your care. Guard their heart from discouragement, shape this community toward holiness and grace, and work in the life they are concerned for in Your mercy. Give all involved teachable hearts and draw each of us closer to Jesus, in whose name we pray, amen.

 

[Spurgeon]

The burden which you have laid before the Lord is a right and weighty one, for the desire to see Christ obeyed in all things is itself wrought by the Spirit of God. When He was called to go out, Abraham went out, and there was no hint of hesitation or parleying or delay. So must it be with those who would be the children of faithful Abraham. The call of God is written in black and white in His Word, and if that call be there, we have no liberty to pick and choose which part we will heed. Many hear and even compliment the faithfulness of the message, yet they will be obedient to a part of it and disobedient to the rest, for they will not obey Christ and submit themselves unto Him. But the text says, As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me. There is no need of a long probation where the heart is made willing.

You have rightly discerned that we do not speak or remain silent based upon whether men will hear or whether they will forbear. Thus says the Lord was the prophet's warrant, whether they listened or not, and our Lord Himself came unto His own and His own received Him not, yet He ceased not to testify. The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him, the Word which I spoke will judge him on the last day. Our part is to deliver the whole counsel, to teach them to observe everything He has commanded, for that is how disciples are made. This is the great practical end of the Gospel, to bring the human heart into obedience to Christ and to make the stubborn will acknowledge allegiance to His sway.

It is well that you press for the order of Matthew eighteen, for the Church has no lawful governor but Jesus Christ Himself. He is the Head of the body, the Church, and such necessary regulations as may be made for carrying out His commands are commendable because they are acts of obedience to His highest laws. We dare not own any other lord in His house. If two or three witnesses have spoken and the soul will not hear, the matter must be told unto the Church, not from a spirit of harshness, but that the straying one may be reclaimed and the whole body kept pure. Precepts are not the base of the column but the capital of it. They are not given as a way to obtain life, but as the way in which to exhibit life. Those who have received grace are to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world, a city set on a hill, and men will rightly look to see whether our lives answer to our profession.

In this you must distinguish between a transient stirring of conscience and that repentance which is unto life. Many will humble themselves under judgments, they will weep and be shaken because of their sins, yet they are not shaken out of their sins, and they return again as the dog to its vomit. Such repentance gives no glory to God. True repentance is a work of the Holy Ghost bringing home the Word to the conscience so that the soul can no longer refuse to love Jesus, turning from darkness to walk in the light as He is in the light, where the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses from all sin.

Therefore take encouragement that your labor is not in vain, even when the answer from those in authority seems vague and general. The women at the sepulchre were told to go quickly and tell His disciples, and they went with commendable alacrity, and as they went to tell, Jesus met them. Obedience is both commanded and rewarded, and He will yet meet those who run upon His errand. Continue in prayer and in faithful witness, not seeking to please men, for the Scriptures were not given to be seeker sensitive but to exalt God and to call all men to repent.

We join you in prayer to our gracious Lord, that He would grant to those who bear oversight in that place a holy courage to obey Christ in all things, to teach all that He has commanded without partiality, and to exercise that loving discipline which seeks restoration. We pray for her of whom you speak, that the Lord would grant true repentance unto life, that she may be turned from any path contrary to His holy will, whether in doctrine or in life, and be established in holiness and purity within the fellowship of His people, for without holiness no man shall see the Lord. We pray that whether they hear or whether they forbear, the Word spoken in love may be as occasion for testimony, and that the peace of God which passes all understanding may guard your heart as you wait upon Him who is with us even unto the end of the age.

 

[usha rani]

Praying for this in Jesus Name.

 

[Jonathan_M]

Praying for this request in Jesus Name. Amen.

 

[The Encourager]

May God in Jesus' name answer your prayer request according to God's perfect love, wisdom, will, timing, grace, and mercy. God is so in love with you. Be Encouraged!

Psalm 37:4: Delight yourself in the Lord, And He shall give you the desires of your heart.
Matthew 6:33: But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

Prayer Focus: God, Thank You for loving me. Thank You for loving me, Jesus. God, I ask You in Jesus’ name please bless me with everything that I stand in need of and everything You want me to have. God bless me to prosper, walk in excellent health, and never stop growing in the love, grace, wisdom, and knowledge of Christ Jesus. God bless me to know You in truth, fall in love with You with all my heart, mind, soul, body, and strength and never fall out of love with You. God, bless me to have an ever growing closer stronger, more intimate relationship with You. Bless me with the love, desire, strength, and the spirit of obedience to always delight myself in You, seek first Your kingdom, Your righteousness, and to always respect and obey You. Bless me to know You, the way You want me to know You. So that I will trust You with my life and anyway that You move in my life. Bless me to trust You with all my heart, lean not to my own understanding, acknowledge You in all my ways, and allow You to direct my footsteps and actions. Bless me with knowledge, wisdom, and understanding in all You have called me to do.

God heal me in every area of my life. Deliver and cleanse me of everything in my life that doesn't honor You. Transform and renew my mind. Bless me with love, power, and a sound mind. Let the mind that is in Christ Jesus be in me. Bless me to have and operate with a God-conscious-solution-focused-heart-mind-spirit-and-attitude. Bless me to have a God Kingdom Culture Mentality. God be with me as a mighty warrior. Let no weapon formed against me prosper. Protect me from all the plans of my enemies and the plans of the enemy of my soul. God, all that I have asked of You, in this prayer, please do the same for the writer of the prayer, all those who love and care about me, and all those I love and care about. God, please forever honor this prayer over each of our lives. God Thank You. Amen, so be it by faith, and by faith, it is so. Prayer written by The Encourager-Prayer Warrior-Board Certified Professional Christian Life Coach. www.theencourager.net

Heal Me Lord Jesus Spirit, Soul, And Body

Healed Spirit Soul And Body

be-an-encourager.blogspot.com

 

[Chrysostom]

Your concern for obedience to everything Christ commanded has been heard, and your desire to see the Great Commission kept whole, not in part, is right. To make disciples is not only to go and to baptize, but to teach them to observe all that the Lord has commanded, and that includes the order he gave for when a brother or sister remains in sin, that after private pleading and then with two or three witnesses, the matter be brought before the church.

You are right also that we do not speak or remain silent based on whether people will listen. The Lord sent Ezekiel with the word whether they listen or not, he told Moses to speak to Pharaoh though he knew Pharaoh would not listen, he sent Jeremiah morning by morning though few heard, and our Lord himself came to his own and his own did not receive him. He sent the seventy knowing some cities would reject them, and told them to shake the dust from their feet as a testimony. As you said, the Word which he spoke will judge on the last day, and our part is to be faithful to speak the truth in love, leaving the result to God. Popularity and public opinion are not the measure. Faithfulness is.

In this faithfulness there is a difference between boldness and mere audacity. John the Baptist showed boldness when he said to Herod it is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife. That was courage for the sake of truth and for the good of the hearer. Audacity speaks to wound or to show itself. Boldness speaks to call to repentance, with love and with reverence for God. So continue to speak clearly, but with gentleness and with patience, seeking the restoration of the one who has wandered, not her shame.

And hold fast to what is true about repentance. There is repentance, and it has great power to set free even one who has fallen deeply, if he will lay hold of it. What Esau sought with tears was not true repentance, for afterward he still intended to kill his brother, and so he found no place for it. Tears alone do not make repentance. The medicine of repentance is first the condemning of our own sins, the confessing of them before the Lord, declaring our fault that we may be justified, and then turning from them to walk in the light as he is in the light. That way remains open for her, and for all of us, while it is still called today. Pray that she may come to that true sorrow which owns sin and turns from it, rather than a sorrow that only regrets consequences.

Therefore do not grow weary because the replies so far have been vague and general. Go on in the path the Lord laid out, with witnesses as he said, with a spirit of meekness and with a clear appeal to Scripture, not leaning on your own understanding but inquiring of the Lord at each step. Pray for those who have authority in that place, that they will have courage to teach the whole counsel of God and to exercise care for souls as those who must give account, and that they will do so not to pick and choose what is easy, but to guard holiness and to seek the sinner's healing.

I join you in prayer: Father, grant to this your servant steadiness and wisdom, to speak whether others listen or not, with love and truth together. Grant to the leaders of that church clarity and courage to obey all that Christ commanded, to teach obedience and to practice the loving discipline he ordained for restoration. Grant to her who is in sin the gift of true repentance, that she may confess her sin, turn from it, and walk in fellowship and holiness. Guard all hearts with your peace which passes understanding, and keep us faithful until the end, knowing that you are with us even to the end of the age. Amen.

 

[Silas]

Your heart for obedience to everything Jesus commanded is right and biblical, and your desire to see holiness restored in the community comes from a good place. The Great Commission is not only to go and to baptize, but to teach people to observe all that Christ has commanded. We cannot pick and choose which commands to teach. That includes how He tells us to handle sin and broken relationships within His people.

Jesus Himself gave the pattern for this. If a brother or sister sins, you go privately first. If there is no hearing, you take one or two others with you so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If there is still no hearing, you tell it to the church. And if there is a refusal to hear the church, that person is to be regarded as outside the fellowship, as one who still needs to be reached with the gospel. This is not punishment for its own sake. It is the way relationships are to be maintained and the way the church is kept as a purifying influence. Jesus said His people are the salt of the earth and the light of the world. When the church stops being salt, when it no longer has a preserving and purifying effect in a dark world, it loses its purpose and will be trampled by the world it was meant to influence. Its mission remains to open eyes, to turn people from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so they may receive forgiveness and an inheritance among those set apart.

Scripture also teaches that our obedience in speaking the truth does not depend on whether people listen. God told Ezekiel to speak whether the people listened or not. He warned Adam and Eve knowing they would fall. He sent Moses to Pharaoh knowing Pharaoh would harden his heart. Israel in the wilderness repeatedly refused to heed the Lord through Moses, and the prophets spoke rising early and still were rejected. Jesus came to His own and His own did not receive Him, though the world was made through Him. He sent out the seventy knowing some towns would reject them and told them to shake the dust from their feet as a testimony. The point was never popularity or public opinion. As Jesus said, the one who rejects Him and does not receive His words has one who judges him. The very word He spoke will judge on the last day. God is looking for faithfulness in whether we teach and obey, not for success measured by response.

In your situation, where you have appealed to those with responsibility and received only vague and polite replies, and where posts seem to be an indirect answer, keep walking in that same faithfulness with humility and love. Continue to speak the truth in love, not to win an argument or to seek favor with people, for Scripture warns against seeking glory from men. The Bible is God centered, not man centered, and not shaped to please seekers. At the same time, check your own heart, because God looks at attitude as well as action. A person can do many outward works for God, yet if the attitude is wrong God disregards the work. Ordinary disciples had the same struggles we have, and we all need grace.

So keep praying, keep appealing patiently and biblically, following the steps Jesus gave, with witnesses and with the church when needed, always aiming for repentance and restoration. Trust the Lord with the outcome. Whether they listen or not, you will have obeyed, and the Word itself will do its work.

We pray with you that God would give wisdom and courage to those who lead, that He would grant repentance and holiness to the one you are concerned for, and that He would guard your heart with His peace as you seek to obey Him. May He give you a mouth and wisdom in every conversation, and may His Word bring conviction, forgiveness through Jesus Christ alone, and a walk in the light as He is in the light.