📖 Whether They Listen or Not, Ezek 2:5, Jn 12:48, Mt 18:17: Church Discipline's Part of Great Commission, Disciples Made By Teaching All, Mt 28:19-20

[Nochaeld]

Whether They Listen or Not, Ezek 2:5, Jn 12:48, Mt 18:17: We cannot "Pick and Choose" as we "Bring the Good News..." Church Discipline's Part of Great Commission, Matt 28:18-20, Mark 16:15-20, Luke 24:44-47, Disciples Made By Teaching All, Mt 28:19-20... Obey Christ and Warn Them that BOTH Heaven and Hell are Real Places, one is avoided by trusting Jesus and obeying all He Commanded, John 8:10-11, Whether They Listen or Not, Ezek 2:5, Response to Word is What Judges on That Day, Jn 12:48, If Don't Listen to Two or Three Witnesses, Bring before Church, Mt 18:17 -- Church Discipline is Part of The Great Commission (Go and Make Disciples of All Nations, Baptizing Them in The Name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, TEACHING Them to Obey EVERYTHING I Have Commanded, Matt 28:19-20...

Reason of Church Discipline, Mt 18:16-17: Obedience to EVERYTHING Christ Taught IS the WAY we MAKE DISCIPLES in The Great Commission, Mt 28:19-20... I've been sending messages to the person with authority there, they've replied by mentioning two vague points of polite, generalities... Their posts are a way of speaking to me in a way, almost a response, but I still am asking for obedience to all that Jesus commanded, Matt 28:20, specifically Matt 18:16-17 to be carried out, especially for the chance of bringing her to repentance and holiness in the community, 1 Jn 1:5-10.

We do not speak or remain silent based upon the person's or people's ability to listen or not, Ezek 2:5-6, Ezek 2:7. In fact, God speaks to and warns the whole human race from Adam and Eve up to present, whether they listen or not. Consider first: He did warn Adam and Eve knowing they'd not obey, correct? Yes, for "The Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world," Rev 13:8

And Moses, was he not told by The LORD to speak to pharaoh and explicitly told by God he would not listen? Ex 3:1-4:22. In fact, is not the record of The Children of Israel in the wilderness not a case study of the inability of Israel to harken unto the voice of The LORD through Moses? It is repeated in MANY Psalms and by Stephen at his defense and martyrdom, Acts 7:51. All their bodies fell in the wilderness for that exact reason, save (except for) Joshua and Caleb -- all this is a testimony that God and his people spoke whether others listened or not...

The Book of Joshua is filled with those who did not fully carry out his instructions, from Ai, to even Joshua himself was fooled by the Gibeonites masquerading as having traveled from a foreign land and a testimony that even Joshua "leaning on his own understanding," rather than "inquiring of The LORD," which David was also hit and miss in his best quality? (David did not "always" inquire of The LORD, certainly didn't regarding Bathsheba, Uriah, and even missed the warnings of Joab who had enough sense to counsel David to not number the people?).

The History of Israel, the Psalms and Prophets, even everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction, Rom 15:4, 1 Cor 10:11. Jesus referred to the fathers of those who sought to kill him that built the tombs of the prophets as a testimony to the fact they spoke the truth under fear of death. he whole of Lamentations is that Jeremiah's life was a testament to his speaking truth, rising morning by morning, warning people of whom only a small minority heard -- repeatedly demonstrating we are to say "this is what the LORD says" or the older, "Thus says The LORD" irregardless of the reaction it has.

This was obviously most clearly demonstrated in the life of Jesus, who, even though perfect, and "the world was made by Him, the world did not receive Him," John 1:10 -- And -- "He came to His own, but His own did not receive Him," John 1:11.

Did everyone listen to "The 70" he sent out? No. That's why he said to shake off the dirt of your feet as a testimony against them. It was implied they would have opposition. James and John wanted to call down fire upon a city (Sons of Thunder). Thankfully Jesus rebuked them, Lk 9:54-55. Reception, popularity, public opinion -- none of that was the point, but to testify to the world and command they repent for The Kingdom of God was at hand, with miracles to prove it. Jesus was not "running for office" and God forbid we give in to that vain-glory, John 5:44, Jn 7:18, Jn 12:43, Gal 1:10.

The Bible is not "anthropocentric" (man-centered), it is "Theocentric" (God centered). It is not "Seeker-Sensitive." Therefore we speak, like the Apostles, Good Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers and Missionaries throughout the ages until present, "whether they listen or not," Isa 6:9-10, Jer 7:27, Ezek 3:11, Amos 7:14-15, Amos 7:16-17. Jesus summarized the entire point and sheds the most sublime truth about our mission: "The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the Word which I spoke. The Word itself will judge him on the last day," John 12:48. It's not about "whether they listen or not," but God is looking at two things, whether or not we obey The Great Commission, which is not merely to "Go" or even "And make Disciples" nor "Baptizing them" but "teaching them to observe everything I have commanded" Matt 28:19-20, and knowing "I am with You even to the End of the Age."

One can go on from the first message recorded at Pentecost of Peter and the Apostles, where after a heavy message, 3,000 repented and were baptized, (not all the hearers repented, the estimated hearers were 10,000 to 50,000 -- so between 6% and 33%). We see this in Paul repeatedly, "When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord spread throughout that region," Acts 13:48, see also Acts 17:34, Acts 18:8. In fact, even "The Two Witnesses" in Revelation prophesy "until they have finished their testimony" and they are killed, Rev 11:7, and it seems the majority of earth rejoice in their death to the point of celebration and gift-giving, Rev 11:10, and though they are raised from the dead and carried up to heaven after death, as it is appointed unto all people to die once and face judgement, Heb 9:27 -- they obviously spoke the truth "whether the people listened or not," Ezek 2:5, Luke 21:15.

Therefore let us "gird-up" and prepare our minds for action, being sober, and set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 1 peter 1:13. Part of this is the reality of why we are to obey sharing "the Word of our testimonies" in overcoming the opposition of the enemy, Rev 12:11. Luke 21:12-15, "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist." Father, Strengthen us ALL to REPENT and BELIEVE THE GOSPEL, Mark 1:15, to FEAR and OBEY YOU, Ecc 12:13, Daniel 12:2, Romans 2:6-8, Revelation 14:7, in carrying out all Your commands given through The Bible by faith and obedience, Deut 8:3, Matt 4:4, Luke 4:4, Matt 28:18-20, Rom 1:5, Rom 15:14-33, whether they listen or not, Ezek 2:5.

We ask they listen, but our goal is to speak the truth in love, regardless of how they treated You, Jesus, as God in the flesh John 1:14, perfect in wisdom, love and knowledge, Col 2:9 -- or Your servants, "The one who receives you receives Me," Matt 10:40, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his Master, nor is a messenger greater than The One who sent him," John 13:16, "Remember the word that I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well," John 15:20. With thanksgiving we request this and thank You in advance for not only the answers, Mark 11:24, but for Your Peace, John 14:27, which passes all comprehension to guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus' Name, Phil 4:6-7, Amen, Rev 3:14, 2 Cor 1:20.

 

[Articles]

We hear the burden in what you have shared and we join with you in wanting to see obedience to everything Christ has commanded, not picking and choosing, and we thank God that you desire faithfulness to His Word whether others listen or not.

You are right that the Great Commission is not only to go and baptize but to teach them to observe all things that Jesus commanded, Matt 28:19-20, and that includes the pattern He gave for dealing with sin in the church, Matt 18:15-17. If your brother sins against you, go, show him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained back your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two more with you, that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the assembly. If he refuses to hear the assembly also, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. That process is not optional, it is part of making disciples, and its goal is always restoration and holiness, that we may have fellowship with Him and walk in the light as He is in the light, 1 John 1:7.

We also agree that Scripture shows over and over that faithfulness is measured by obedience in speaking the truth, not by the response. As you noted, they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, shall know that there has been a prophet among them, Ezek 2:5, and again, you shall speak my words to them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, Ezek 2:7. Moses was sent to Pharaoh though God said he would not listen, Exod 3:19, Israel in the wilderness would not harken and their bodies fell in the wilderness, Heb 3:17, Jeremiah rose early and spoke though few listened, Jer 7:27, and our Lord Jesus Himself came to His own and His own did not receive Him, John 1:11, though the world was made through Him, John 1:10. He who rejects me, and does not receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke will judge him in the last day, John 12:48. That is sobering and it frees us from being man centered or seeker sensitive and keeps us God centered, seeking to please God rather than men, Gal 1:10, not seeking glory from men, John 5:44.

We want to encourage you to continue in this with the right spirit, for church discipline must be done in love, humility, and patience, not in pride or strife. We are to preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, and exhort with all patience and teaching, 2 Tim 4:2, and if someone is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, looking to yourself so that you also are not tempted, Gal 6:1. A servant of the Lord must not quarrel, but be gentle toward all, able to teach, patient, in gentleness correcting those who oppose them, 2 Tim 2:24-25. So we counsel you to keep going to the proper authority in the church as you have, with witnesses as Scripture says, Matt 18:16, and to leave the outcome to the Lord and to the shepherds He has appointed, Heb 13:17, trusting that He will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to withstand or to contradict, Luke 21:15. We also remember that all Scripture is profitable and whatever was written before was written for our learning, Rom 15:4, that we might have hope and instruction.

We understand your concern for this woman that she might come to repentance and holiness. That is the heart of discipline, not to punish but to win a sister, to call her to confess and forsake sin so that she may be cleansed, 1 John 1:9, and to protect the purity of the community. We pray for her and for the leaders who have so far answered only with vague and polite generalities, that God would give them courage to teach and to obey all that Christ commanded, even when it is difficult.

We pray together now in the name of Jesus Christ, for it is only through Him that we have access to the Father and there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved, Acts 4:12, and whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved, Rom 10:13.

Father, we come before You in Jesus name and we thank You for Your Word which is truth, John 17:17, and for Your grace that calls us to repent and believe in the Good News, Mark 1:15. We ask You to strengthen us to gird up the waist of our mind, be sober and set our hope fully on the grace that will be brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 1 Pet 1:13, and to overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony, Rev 12:11. Give us boldness to speak Your truth in love, Eph 4:15, whether they listen or not, Ezek 2:5, and to remember that the Word itself will judge on the last day, John 12:48. We lift up this situation and this dear woman to You, that You would grant her repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 2 Tim 2:25, that if she has sinned she would confess and forsake it and find mercy, Prov 28:13, and walk in holiness. We lift up the leaders with authority there, give them wisdom, conviction and love to obey Matt 18:16-17 and Matt 28:19-20 fully, teaching to observe all things You commanded. Keep us all from leaning on our own understanding, Prov 3:5, and help us to inquire of You in all things. Let Your peace which passes all understanding guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus, Phil 4:7, as we trust You to work and to be with us always, even to the end of the age, Matt 28:20. We ask this in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.

 

[hostadmin]

We hear how heavy this burden has felt for you, and how much you want to see Jesus honored and people helped toward holiness. Caring enough to speak up, even when the response has been vague and painful, takes courage and love for the church.

It is discouraging when you have reached out to the person with authority and feel you are only getting polite generalities, or reading meaning into posts hoping for a clearer answer. We admire your desire to be faithful whether others listen or not, and also to leave the outcome in God's hands.

Church discipline, when it is needed, is not meant to rest on one person alone. It belongs to the whole church under its appointed leaders who are tasked to protect truth and care for souls. That can be hard to wait on, especially when you long for repentance and restoration for someone you care about.

A next step that may help you is to put your concern in one clear, brief, gracious written note to that leader, stating what you have observed and why you are concerned, then step back to pray and let them carry the responsibility before the Lord. It can also help to share this weight with one mature, trusted believer in your own life for counsel and prayer, so you are not carrying it by yourself or watching closely for hidden responses.

Father, we bring our brother before You and ask for wisdom, peace, and strength to keep walking faithfully. Guard his heart from discouragement, guide the leaders involved with discernment, and work in all for repentance, holiness, and reconciliation according to Your will. In Jesus' name, amen.