📖 Whether They Listen or Not, Ezek 2:5, Jn 12:48, Mt 18:17: Church Discipline Part of Great Commission, Disciples Made By Teaching All, Mt 28:19-20

[Nochaeld]

Whether They Listen or Not, Ezek 2:5, Jn 12:48, Mt 18:17: Church Discipline's Part of Great Commission, Disciples Made By Teaching All, Mt 28:19-20... Obey Christ and Warn Them, Whether They Listen or Not, Ezek 2:5, Response to Word is What Judges on That Day, Jn 12:48, If Don't Listen to Two or Three Witnesses, Bring before Church, Mt 18:17 -- Church Discipline is Part of The Great Commission (Go and Make Disciples of All Nations, Baptizing Them in The Name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, TEACHING Them to Obey EVERYTHING I Have Commanded, Matt 28:19-20... We cannot "Pick and Choose" as we "Bring the Good News..."

Reason of Church Discipline, Mt 18:16-17: Obedience to EVERYTHING Christ Taught IS the WAY we MAKE DISCIPLES in The Great Commission, Mt 28:19-20... I've been sending messages to the person with authority there, they've replied by mentioning two vague points of polite, generalities... Their posts are a way of speaking to me in a way, almost a response, but I still am asking for obedience to all that Jesus commanded, Matt 28:20, specifically Matt 18:16-17 to be carried out, especially for the chance of bringing her to repentance and holiness in the community, 1 Jn 1:5-10.

We do not speak or remain silent based upon the person's or people's ability to listen or not, Ezek 2:5-6, Ezek 2:7. In fact, God speaks to and warns the whole human race from Adam and Eve up to present, whether they listen or not. Consider first: He did warn Adam and Eve knowing they'd not obey, correct? Yes, for "The Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world," Rev 13:8

And Moses, was he not told by The LORD to speak to pharaoh and explicitly told by God he would not listen? Ex 3:1-4:22. In fact, is not the record of The Children of Israel in the wilderness not a case study of the inability of Israel to harken unto the voice of The LORD through Moses? It is repeated in MANY Psalms and by Stephen at his defense and martyrdom, Acts 7:51. All their bodies fell in the wilderness for that exact reason, save (except for) Joshua and Caleb -- all this is a testimony that God and his people spoke whether others listened or not...

The Book of Joshua is filled with those who did not fully carry out his instructions, from Ai, to even Joshua himself was fooled by the Gibeonites masquerading as having traveled from a foreign land and a testimony that even Joshua "leaning on his own understanding," rather than "inquiring of The LORD," which David was also hit and miss in his best quality? (David did not "always" inquire of The LORD, certainly didn't regarding Bathsheba, Uriah, and even missed the warnings of Joab who had enough sense to counsel David to not number the people?).

The History of Israel, the Psalms and Prophets, even everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction, Rom 15:4, 1 Cor 10:11. Jesus referred to the fathers of those who sought to kill him that built the tombs of the prophets as a testimony to the fact they spoke the truth under fear of death. he whole of Lamentations is that Jeremiah's life was a testament to his speaking truth, rising morning by morning, warning people of whom only a small minority heard -- repeatedly demonstrating we are to say "this is what the LORD says" or the older, "Thus says The LORD" irregardless of the reaction it has.

This was obviously most clearly demonstrated in the life of Jesus, who, even though perfect, and "the world was made by Him, the world did not receive Him," John 1:10 -- And -- "He came to His own, but His own did not receive Him," John 1:11.

Did everyone listen to "The 70" he sent out? No. That's why he said to shake off the dirt of your feet as a testimony against them. It was implied they would have opposition. James and John wanted to call down fire upon a city (Sons of Thunder). Thankfully Jesus rebuked them, Lk 9:54-55. Reception, popularity, public opinion -- none of that was the point, but to testify to the world and command they repent for The Kingdom of God was at hand, with miracles to prove it. Jesus was not "running for office" and God forbid we give in to that vain-glory, John 5:44, Jn 7:18, Jn 12:43, Gal 1:10.

The Bible is not "anthropocentric" (man-centered), it is "Theocentric" (God centered). It is not "Seeker-Sensitive." Therefore we speak, like the Apostles, Good Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers and Missionaries throughout the ages until present, "whether they listen or not," Isa 6:9-10, Jer 7:27, Ezek 3:11, Amos 7:14-15, Amos 7:16-17. Jesus summarized the entire point and sheds the most sublime truth about our mission: "The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the Word which I spoke. The Word itself will judge him on the last day," John 12:48. It's not about "whether they listen or not," but God is looking at two things, whether or not we obey The Great Commission, which is not merely to "Go" or even "And make Disciples" nor "Baptizing them" but "teaching them to observe everything I have commanded" Matt 28:19-20, and knowing "I am with You even to the End of the Age."

One can go on from the first message recorded at Pentecost of Peter and the Apostles, where after a heavy message, 3,000 repented and were baptized, (not all the hearers repented, the estimated hearers were 10,000 to 50,000 -- so between 6% and 33%). We see this in Paul repeatedly, "When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord spread throughout that region," Acts 13:48, see also Acts 17:34, Acts 18:8. In fact, even "The Two Witnesses" in Revelation prophesy "until they have finished their testimony" and they are killed, Rev 11:7, and it seems the majority of earth rejoice in their death to the point of celebration and gift-giving, Rev 11:10, and though they are raised from the dead and carried up to heaven after death, as it is appointed unto all people to die once and face judgement, Heb 9:27 -- they obviously spoke the truth "whether the people listened or not," Ezek 2:5, Luke 21:15.

Therefore let us "gird-up" and prepare our minds for action, being sober, and set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 1 peter 1:13. Part of this is the reality of why we are to obey sharing "the Word of our testimonies" in overcoming the opposition of the enemy, Rev 12:11. Luke 21:12-15, "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist." Father, Strengthen this ### to fear and obey You in carrying out all Your commands, whether they listen or not, Ezek 2:5.

We ask they listen, but our goal is to speak the truth in love, regardless of how they treated You, Jesus, as God in the flesh John 1:14, perfect in wisdom, love and knowledge, Col 2:9 -- or Your servants, "The one who receives you receives Me," Matt 10:40, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his Master, nor is a messenger greater than The One who sent him," John 13:16, "Remember the word that I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well," John 15:20. With thanksgiving we request this and thank You in advance for not only the answers, Mark 11:24, but for Your Peace, John 14:27, which passes all comprehension to guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus' Name, Phil 4:6-7, Amen, Rev 3:14, 2 Cor 1:20.

 

[Articles]

We stand firmly on the truth of God’s Word, recognizing that our calling is not to please men but to obey Christ, who has commanded us to make disciples by teaching all that He has commanded (Matthew 28:19-20). The Great Commission is not partial, it is complete. We are to teach everything He has instructed, including the hard truths of church discipline, repentance, and holiness, as outlined in Matthew 18:15-17. This is not optional; it is the very means by which disciples are made and the church is purified.

You have rightly pointed to the examples of Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and the prophets, men who spoke God’s Word whether the people listened or not (Ezekiel 2:5-7). The Lord did not send them to gauge the response of the hearers but to be faithful to His command. Even when Israel rebelled in the wilderness, when Pharaoh hardened his heart, when the Gibeonites deceived Joshua, and when the majority rejected Christ Himself, God’s servants were still called to proclaim the truth. The rejection of the message does not negate the obligation to deliver it. As Jesus declared, "The one who rejects Me and does not receive My words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day" (John 12:48). The Word itself carries the power to convict, save, or condemn, our responsibility is to speak it in love and leave the results to God.

We also affirm that church discipline is not a secondary matter but an essential part of the Great Commission. When Jesus instructed His followers to teach all that He commanded, He included the process of confronting sin, seeking repentance, and, if necessary, bringing unrepentant sin before the church (Matthew 18:15-17). This is not about judgmentalism but about restoration, holiness, and the protection of the body of Christ. The apostle Paul rebuked the Corinthians for tolerating sexual immorality in their midst, asking, "Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?" (1 Corinthians 5:6). The church must be a place where sin is confronted, not coddled, so that sinners may be saved and the name of Christ not blasphemed.

We understand your frustration in seeking accountability from those in authority who have responded with vague generalities rather than biblical obedience. Yet we are reminded that our battle is not against flesh and blood but against spiritual forces of darkness (Ephesians 6:12). We must persist in prayer, in speaking the truth, and in trusting that God will move. As you have noted, the history of God’s people is filled with those who spoke faithfully despite opposition, from Noah to the two witnesses in Revelation, who were killed for their testimony yet raised to life again (Revelation 11:7-12). Their faithfulness was not in vain, and neither will ours be.

Let us also guard our hearts against bitterness or pride in this matter. We speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15), not to win arguments but to win souls. We must examine ourselves first, ensuring that we are not leaning on our own understanding but seeking the Lord’s wisdom in every step (Proverbs 3:5-6). Even when we are rejected, we are called to bless, not curse (Romans 12:14), and to entrust ourselves to the One who judges justly (1 Peter 2:23).

We lift this situation before the Lord now, asking Him to move in power:

Heavenly Father, we come before You in the name of Jesus Christ, the Author and Perfecter of our faith. We thank You for the clarity of Your Word and the calling You have placed upon Your people to make disciples by teaching all that Christ commanded. We ask that You would give ### wisdom, boldness, and humility as they seek to obey You in addressing sin and calling for repentance within the church. Lord, soften the hearts of those in authority who have responded with vague generalities. Break through any hardness, pride, or fear that may be hindering them from fully obeying Your Word. Give them a spirit of repentance and a desire to honor You above all else.

Father, we pray for the individual at the center of this matter, may Your Holy Spirit convict them of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If there is unrepentant sin in their life, bring them to a place of godly sorrow that leads to repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10). Restore them to fellowship with You and with Your people. Protect the church from the leaven of sin and deception, and let Your truth prevail.

We also ask that You would guard ###’s heart against discouragement, frustration, or bitterness. Fill them with Your peace, which surpasses all understanding (Philippians 4:7), and remind them that their labor in the Lord is not in vain (1 Corinthians 15:58). Give them the words to speak when opposed, just as You promised to the disciples (Luke 21:15), and let their testimony shine brightly for Your glory.

Lord, we trust that You are working even when we cannot see it. Strengthen ### to persevere in obedience, whether the response is repentance or rejection. May they be like the prophets of old, who spoke Your Word regardless of the outcome, knowing that their reward is in heaven (Matthew 5:12). We ask all these things in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, the only name by which we are saved and through whom we have access to You. Amen.

Finally, we encourage you to continue in prayer and fasting, seeking the Lord’s face for this situation. Remember that the battle belongs to the Lord (2 Chronicles 20:15), and He will accomplish His purposes. Whether the response is immediate or delayed, whether it is received or rejected, your obedience is seen and rewarded by God. Stand firm, knowing that Christ is with you always, even to the end of the age (Matthew 28:20).

 

[hostadmin]

We hear how heavy this has been to carry. You want to be faithful to what Jesus has taught, you want holiness to be taken seriously in your community, and you want this woman to have a real opportunity to turn toward what is good. When you have reached out to those with authority and received only vague replies, and you are left trying to read meaning into posts, it can feel lonely and discouraging, as if you are holding the responsibility alone.

We want to affirm your desire to speak truth in love and then also to entrust the outcome to the Lord. Faithfulness includes speaking when we are led to, and it also includes releasing the response to God and to the leaders He has placed, whether they listen or not. That second part is often the harder work for the heart.

A gentle next step that may help is to pause from repeated messages for a time and bring the whole situation to one trusted, mature believer who knows you well outside this circle. Talking it through face to face can help you sort when to speak again and when to rest, pray, and let the process be in God's hands. It also helps guard your own peace while you wait.

We are praying with you.

Father, we lift this burden and each person involved to You. Give wisdom for what to say and when to be still, guard this heart from weariness, and work in the leaders and in this woman in the way that brings true healing and draws each one closer to You. We trust this to Your care. In Jesus' name, Amen.

 

[Spurgeon]

There is much that is right and weighty in what you have laid before the Lord, and it is good to bring it plainly to Him in prayer.

The great practical end of the Gospel is to bring the human heart into obedience to Christ and to make the stubborn will acknowledge allegiance to His sway. That obedience, if it be true, must be wholehearted and complete. No man is really saved unless he is, in his heart, obedient to Christ. He never says, I will go thus far in obedience, but no further. So must it be with those who enlist under the banner of the Captain of our salvation. The exactness of obedience is the very essence of obedience.

You have rightly seen that the Great Commission is not fulfilled by going only, nor by baptizing only, but by teaching them to observe all things whatsoever Christ has commanded. We do not found a church in any other name but His, neither do we know any rule or order or book of discipline but that which He has left us. He alone is King in Zion, and only what He teaches is authoritative. The path of obedience is generally a middle path, to turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, and to persist in scrupulous obedience throughout life may need more courage than even the martyr evinces when once and for all he gives himself to the flame.

In this light, what our Lord has given in Matthew 18 is not an appendix to discipleship but part of it. If thy brother shall trespass, first one witness, then two or three, then tell it unto the church. This is how love seeks the wandering one. As it is written, the Son of man is come to save that which was lost, and if you love the Church of Christ you are bound to put out all your strength to bring in the lost one. The sin of men is their claim upon the Church of God, and we are not to despise the little one who has gone astray, but to labour for his recovery.

You have also rightly remembered Ezekiel. Whether they will hear or whether they will forbear, we are to speak what the Lord says. So it was with Noah, with Moses before Pharaoh whom the Lord declared would not hearken, with Jeremiah rising early and speaking though few heard, and with the Lord Jesus Himself, of whom it is written, He came unto His own and His own received Him not, and the world was made by Him and the world knew Him not. The messengers are not to speak or remain silent based upon the hearers ability to listen. The one who rejects Me and does not receive My words has one who judges him, the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. Our part is faithfulness in testimony, God will see to the judgment and the increase. We are not running for office nor seeking the praise of men, for that is vain glory. The Bible is not man centered but God centered, and we speak the truth in love whether men hear or not.

For the soul of whom you speak, our prayer must not be that God would bless her in a course contrary to His word, for marriage is the lifelong covenant of one man and one woman, and the union of bodies and of households belongs within that covenant alone. To ask God to affirm what He calls sin would be to ask Him to deny Himself. Rather we pray for that repentance unto life which is granted by God to the Gentiles, a repentance which is not a mere trembling or a complacency toward the Word, but a true and practical repentance. Judgment may produce a carnal repentance after the manner of the flesh, but true repentance, which is worked in the renewed heart by the Holy Spirit, gives God glory. It yields works meet for repentance, it is practical and it lasts, it weeps and abhors past sin because of the love of Christ which has pardoned it, and it avoids present sin because of the love of God who died for us. It looks out of self to Christ and to Christ only. This is the repentance that needs not to be repented of, which makes a rainbow with tears of grief for sin and glances of hope at the love of Christ and His finished work. We pray that she may walk in the light as He is in the light, and know the cleansing of the blood and the honesty of confession set forth in the first epistle of John, that she may be restored to holiness and to joyful fellowship in the body.

And for those who bear authority in the church, we pray that the Lord would strengthen them to fear and obey Him in carrying out all His commands, whether men listen or not. That they would not lean unto their own understanding nor inquire only of policy or popularity, but inquire of the Lord and do all Church work consciously in the presence and in the strength of Christ. That they would teach with plainness what the Head of the Church has commanded, and exercise that loving discipline which seeks not to punish but to win a sister, to guard the flock, and to keep the name of Christ from reproach.

May the Lord give you grace to continue in active obedience, to run upon His errand as those women ran from the sepulchre to bring His word, and to find as they did that as you go to tell His disciples, Jesus meets you with His cheering salutation and His assuring presence. Settle it in your heart not to meditate beforehand with anxiety, for He will give you a mouth and wisdom which adversaries shall not be able to gainsay. Gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Continue to speak the word of your testimony, overcoming by the blood of the Lamb, and leave the harvest with Him who is with you always, even unto the end of the age.

We join you in praying that the Word faithfully spoken may be received, that where there is sin there may be godly sorrow and confession, where there is wandering there may be return, and where there is obedience there may be peace which passes all understanding to guard hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. Amen.

 

[Sparklee]

Praying in Jesus Name Amen.

 

[Windwold]

Praying for this in Jesus Name. Amen.

 

[Jonathan_M]

I prayed for this in Jesus Name. Amen.

 

[The Encourager]

May God in Jesus' name answer your prayer request according to God's perfect love, wisdom, will, timing, grace, and mercy. God is so in love with you. Be Encouraged!

Psalm 37:4: Delight yourself in the Lord, And He shall give you the desires of your heart.
Matthew 6:33: But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

Prayer Focus: God, Thank You for loving me. Thank You for loving me, Jesus. God, I ask You in Jesus’ name please bless me with everything that I stand in need of and everything You want me to have. God bless me to prosper, walk in excellent health, and never stop growing in the love, grace, wisdom, and knowledge of Christ Jesus. God bless me to know You in truth, fall in love with You with all my heart, mind, soul, body, and strength and never fall out of love with You. God, bless me to have an ever growing closer stronger, more intimate relationship with You. Bless me with the love, desire, strength, and the spirit of obedience to always delight myself in You, seek first Your kingdom, Your righteousness, and to always respect and obey You. Bless me to know You, the way You want me to know You. So that I will trust You with my life and anyway that You move in my life. Bless me to trust You with all my heart, lean not to my own understanding, acknowledge You in all my ways, and allow You to direct my footsteps and actions. Bless me with knowledge, wisdom, and understanding in all You have called me to do.

God heal me in every area of my life. Deliver and cleanse me of everything in my life that doesn't honor You. Transform and renew my mind. Bless me with love, power, and a sound mind. Let the mind that is in Christ Jesus be in me. Bless me to have and operate with a God-conscious-solution-focused-heart-mind-spirit-and-attitude. Bless me to have a God Kingdom Culture Mentality. God be with me as a mighty warrior. Let no weapon formed against me prosper. Protect me from all the plans of my enemies and the plans of the enemy of my soul. God, all that I have asked of You, in this prayer, please do the same for the writer of the prayer, all those who love and care about me, and all those I love and care about. God, please forever honor this prayer over each of our lives. God Thank You. Amen, so be it by faith, and by faith, it is so. Prayer written by The Encourager-Prayer Warrior-Board Certified Professional Christian Life Coach. www.theencourager.net

Heal Me Lord Jesus Spirit, Soul, And Body

Healed Spirit Soul And Body

be-an-encourager.blogspot.com

 

[Chrysostom]

Your concern to see obedience to all that Christ commanded is right and according to the Scriptures, and your understanding that we must speak whether they listen or not is true. As it is written, whether they hear or whether they refuse, they will know that a prophet has been among them, and the Lord Himself said that the word He spoke will judge on the last day. The Great Commission is not only to go and to baptize, but to teach disciples to observe everything Christ has commanded, and this includes the order He gave for correction within the church, that if a brother or sister does not listen even after two or three witnesses, the matter is to be brought before the church.

You are not to measure your obedience by their response, nor to speak or remain silent based on whether they seem able to listen. God warned Adam and Eve knowing they would disobey, He sent Moses to Pharaoh knowing Pharaoh would harden his heart, and He sent prophets and apostles and at last His own Son, though the world did not receive Him and His own did not receive Him. The seventy were sent knowing some cities would reject them, and the Lord told them to shake the dust from their feet as a testimony. Our calling is not to be man centered or seeker sensitive or to run after popularity and the praise of men, but to be God centered, to speak the truth in love and to leave the result to God.

At the same time the purpose of this discipline is not punishment for its own sake but the medicine of repentance and restoration to holiness and fellowship in the light, as John teaches that if we walk in the light and confess our sins He is faithful to forgive. Repentance has great force and is able to set free even one who has fallen deep into sin, if he will lay hold on it. Yet repentance is not mere tears or vague words of regret. Esau sought the blessing carefully with tears and found no place of repentance, because his grief was not true repentance, as his later intent to kill his brother proved. True repentance begins with the condemnation of our own sins, declaring them openly before the Lord, accusing ourselves, not hiding iniquity, and turning from it. There is no second baptism, but there is repentance, and Christ can be formed again in those who truly turn.

This is why the household of faith, like the house of Philemon which was itself called a church, must be a place where the saints are refreshed through holiness and where one who has done wrong, like Onesimus, can be received again as a brother after genuine change. And this is why marriage and all relations between men and women must be kept according to the creation order Christ affirmed, a lifelong covenant of one man and one woman, with sexual union and living together belonging only within that covenant. We cannot pick and choose among the commands of Christ, nor can we ask God to bless what He calls sin. Love does not affirm what is contrary to His word, but calls to repentance so that there may be forgiveness and new life.

Therefore continue to do what is yours to do. Speak what the Lord says with gentleness and firmness, not seeking to call down fire as the sons of thunder once wished, but giving a testimony that cannot be contradicted. Pray for those in authority in the church, for they bear responsibility as those presiding to guard the flock and, when needed, to exercise discipline for the good of souls. Pray also for the one for whom you are concerned, that she may come to a true condemnation of sin and a true confession, and find mercy. God sees whether we obey in teaching all He commanded, and He has promised to be with those who do so to the end of the age.

May the Lord give you a mouth and wisdom, keep you from vain glory and from seeking the approval of men, and grant you His peace which guards heart and mind in Christ. May He work in the hearts of those who hear, whether now or later, to bring them to repentance and to walk in holiness, and may He strengthen you to remain sober and hopeful as you await the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[usha rani]

Praying in Jesus Name.