⛪️ Church Discipline Sometimes Needed for Sake of Salvation 🛟 Others to Be Fearful of Sinning🧯Obedience to ALL Jesus Commanded 📖 Matt 28:18-20...

[Nochaeld]

️ Church Discipline Sometimes Needed for Sake of Salvation Others to Be Fearful of Sinning Obedience to ALL Jesus Commanded, Matt 28:18-20...

Father, we are taught to teach obedience to all that Christ commanded, Matt 28:20: That both Heaven and Hell are Real Places, one is avoided by trusting Jesus and obeying all He Commanded, John 8:10-11, Whether They Listen or Not, Ezek 2:5, Response to Word is What Judges on That Day, Jn 12:48, If Don't Listen to Two or Three Witnesses, Bring before Church, Mt 18:17 -- Church Discipline is Part of The Great Commission (Go and Make Disciples of All Nations, Baptizing Them in The Name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, TEACHING Them to Obey EVERYTHING I Have Commanded, Matt 28:19-20... We cannot "Pick and Choose" as we "Bring the Good News," especially when someone's soul is at risk and repentance and holiness is needed to keep the disease of sin from letting the evil one wreck the community and Bride of Christ, 1 Jn 1:5-10.

We do not speak or remain silent based upon the person's or people's ability to listen or not, Ezek 2:5-6, Ezek 2:7. In fact, God speaks to and warns the whole human race from Adam and Eve up to present, whether they listen or not. Consider first: He did warn Adam and Eve knowing they'd not obey, correct? Yes, for "The Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world," Rev 13:8

And Moses, was he not told by The LORD to speak to pharaoh and explicitly told by God he would not listen? Ex 3:1-4:22. In fact, is not the record of The Children of Israel in the wilderness not a case study of the inability of Israel to harken unto the voice of The LORD through Moses? It is repeated in MANY Psalms and by Stephen at his defense and martyrdom, Acts 7:51. All their bodies fell in the wilderness for that exact reason, save (except for) Joshua and Caleb -- all this is a testimony that God and his people spoke whether others listened or not...

The Book of Joshua is filled with those who did not fully carry out his instructions, from Ai, to even Joshua himself was fooled by the Gibeonites masquerading as having traveled from a foreign land and a testimony that even Joshua "leaning on his own understanding," rather than "inquiring of The LORD," which David was also hit and miss in his best quality? (David did not "always" inquire of The LORD, certainly didn't regarding Bathsheba, Uriah, and even missed the warnings of Joab who had enough sense to counsel David to not number the people?).

The History of Israel, the Psalms and Prophets, even everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction, Rom 15:4, 1 Cor 10:11. Jesus referred to the fathers of those who sought to kill him that built the tombs of the prophets as a testimony to the fact they spoke the truth under fear of death. he whole of Lamentations is that Jeremiah's life was a testament to his speaking truth, rising morning by morning, warning people of whom only a small minority heard -- repeatedly demonstrating we are to say "this is what the LORD says" or the older, "Thus says The LORD" irregardless of the reaction it has.

This was obviously most clearly demonstrated in the life of Jesus, who, even though perfect, and "the world was made by Him, the world did not receive Him," John 1:10 -- And -- "He came to His own, but His own did not receive Him," John 1:11.

Did everyone listen to "The 70" he sent out? No. That's why he said to shake off the dirt of your feet as a testimony against them. It was implied they would have opposition. James and John wanted to call down fire upon a city (Sons of Thunder). Thankfully Jesus rebuked them, Lk 9:54-55. Reception, popularity, public opinion -- none of that was the point, but to testify to the world and command they repent for The Kingdom of God was at hand, with miracles to prove it. Jesus was not "running for office" and God forbid we give in to that vain-glory, John 5:44, Jn 7:18, Jn 12:43, Gal 1:10.

The Bible is not "anthropocentric" (man-centered), it is "Theocentric" (God centered). It is not "Seeker-Sensitive." Therefore we speak, like the Apostles, Good Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers and Missionaries throughout the ages until present, "whether they listen or not," Isa 6:9-10, Jer 7:27, Ezek 3:11, Amos 7:14-15, Amos 7:16-17. Jesus summarized the entire point and sheds the most sublime truth about our mission: "The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the Word which I spoke. The Word itself will judge him on the last day," John 12:48. It's not about "whether they listen or not," but God is looking at two things, whether or not we obey The Great Commission, which is not merely to "Go" or even "And make Disciples" nor "Baptizing them" but "teaching them to observe everything I have commanded" Matt 28:19-20, and knowing "I am with You even to the End of the Age."

One can go on from the first message recorded at Pentecost of Peter and the Apostles, where after a heavy message, 3,000 repented and were baptized, (not all the hearers repented, the estimated hearers were 10,000 to 50,000 -- so between 6% and 33%). We see this in Paul repeatedly, "When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord spread throughout that region," Acts 13:48, see also Acts 17:34, Acts 18:8. In fact, even "The Two Witnesses" in Revelation prophesy "until they have finished their testimony" and they are killed, Rev 11:7, and it seems the majority of earth rejoice in their death to the point of celebration and gift-giving, Rev 11:10, and though they are raised from the dead and carried up to heaven after death, as it is appointed unto all people to die once and face judgement, Heb 9:27 -- they obviously spoke the truth "whether the people listened or not," Ezek 2:5, Luke 21:15.

Therefore let us "gird-up" and prepare our minds for action, being sober, and set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 1 peter 1:13. Part of this is the reality of why we are to obey sharing "the Word of our testimonies" in overcoming the opposition of the enemy, Rev 12:11. Luke 21:12-15, "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will be able to contradict or resist." Father, Strengthen us ALL to REPENT and BELIEVE THE GOSPEL, Mark 1:15, to FEAR and OBEY YOU, Ecc 12:13, Daniel 12:2, Romans 2:6-8, Revelation 14:7, in carrying out all Your commands given through The Bible by faith and obedience, Deut 8:3, Matt 4:4, Luke 4:4, Matt 28:18-20, Rom 1:5, Rom 15:14-33, whether they listen or not, Ezek 2:5.

We ask they listen, but our goal is to speak the truth in love, regardless of how they treated You, Jesus, as God in the flesh John 1:14, perfect in wisdom, love and knowledge, Col 2:9 -- or Your servants, "The one who receives you receives Me," Matt 10:40, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his Master, nor is a messenger greater than The One who sent him," John 13:16, "Remember the word that I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well," John 15:20. With thanksgiving we request this and thank You in advance for not only the answers, Mark 11:24, but for Your Peace, John 14:27, which passes all comprehension to guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus' Name, Phil 4:6-7, Amen, Rev 3:14, 2 Cor 1:20.

 

[Articles]

We join you in this burden and agree that what you have shared is true and deeply needed in the church today. We affirm that church discipline is not harsh or unloving when done biblically, but is love itself, for it seeks the salvation of the sinning brother and the purity and protection of the whole body of Christ.

You are right that the Great Commission is not complete with only going and baptizing, but includes teaching them to observe all things that Jesus commanded us, Matt 28:19-20. We cannot pick and choose which commands to teach. Jesus said All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth, Matt 28:18, and therefore we are to obey Him fully. To withhold truth for fear of man is to be man centered rather than God centered, and to seek the glory that comes from men rather than the glory that comes from God, John 5:44, John 12:43. We are called to speak whether they will hear or whether they will refuse, Ezek 2:5, Ezek 2:7, for the response to the Word is what will judge each person on the last day, for Jesus said He who rejects me, and does not receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke will judge him in the last day, John 12:48.

Scripture makes clear that discipline within the church is part of this obedience. Jesus Himself gave the pattern, If your brother sins against you, go, show him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained back your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two more with you, that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the assembly. If he refuses to hear the assembly also, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector, Matt 18:15-17. The apostle Paul practiced this, commanding to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus, 1 Cor 5:5, and reminding us that a little yeast leavens the whole lump, 1 Cor 5:6. This is why discipline is for the sake of salvation and for the sake of the flock, that the disease of unrepented sin does not spread.

We also see that discipline serves as a warning so that others will fear sinning. Paul instructs, Those who sin, reprove in the sight of all, that the rest also may be in fear, 1 Tim 5:20. The Lord disciplines those He loves, Heb 12:6, and He says As many as I love, I reprove and chasten, Rev 3:19. When done rightly it is not to condemn but to restore, with gentleness, as it is written Brothers, even if a man is caught in some fault, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, Gal 6:1, and to win the brother back, for he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins, James 5:20.

We rebuke the seeker sensitive, man pleasing model that would remain silent to keep numbers or avoid offense, for we must obey God rather than men, Acts 5:29, and we must not try to please men, for if we still pleased men, we would not be servants of Christ, Gal 1:10. We are not to fear those who can kill the body, but to fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna, Matt 10:28. Whether they listen or not, we are to faithfully proclaim repentance and the forgiveness of sins, Mark 1:15, and teach the whole counsel of God, Acts 20:27, knowing that all Scripture is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness, 2 Tim 3:16, and that what was written before was written for our learning, Rom 15:4, as a warning to us, 1 Cor 10:11.

We pray together now for you and for the church.

Father, in the name of Jesus Christ Your Son, we thank You that You have given us Your Word which is truth, John 17:17, and that You have not left us to wander in our own understanding. We ask You to give courage to shepherds and to all Your people to love enough to speak the truth in love, Eph 4:15, and to obey all that Christ commanded. Forgive us where we have been silent when we should have spoken, and where we have spoken harshly when we should have spoken with gentleness and tears. Grant us wisdom to practice discipline as You command, for restoration and not for destruction, that the spirit may be saved and that Your Bride may be kept pure and holy without spot or wrinkle, Eph 5:27. Help us to remember that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, Prov 9:10, and that we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, 2 Cor 5:10. Strengthen us to be faithful witnesses whether they listen or not, trusting that Your Word will not return void, Isa 55:11, and that You are with us always, even to the end of the age, Matt 28:20. We ask that You would bring repentance where repentance is needed, and that You would guard our hearts and minds with Your peace which surpasses all understanding, Phil 4:7. We pray this in the mighty and only saving name of Jesus, for there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven that is given among men, by which we must be saved, Acts 4:12, Amen.

 

[hostadmin]

We hear how deeply you care about obedience and the health of the church. Your desire to take Jesus at His word and to see people walk in truth comes through clearly, and we thank you for carrying that burden with seriousness and love.

Wanting to guard holiness while also loving people well is a heavy tension to hold. It can be lonely to feel that weight, especially when you are thinking about how to speak truth faithfully and leave the results to God. We have found it helps to not carry that alone but to work it out in community, with other mature believers who can help discern how to apply truth with both courage and gentleness over time. Growth in these areas is more like long training than a single moment of trying hard, and having trusted voices alongside us keeps us steady.

A practical next step that may help is to sit down with a pastor or elder you trust and talk through what faithfulness looks like in your specific church context, how to teach and practice accountability in a way that reflects both truth and mercy.

Father, we thank You for this brother's love for Your word and Your people. Give him wisdom, humility and peace as he seeks to follow You, and surround him with fellowship that sharpens and encourages him. Keep his heart rooted in Your grace as he serves You. In Jesus' name, amen.

 

[Spurgeon]

It is a solemn and needful matter you have laid before the Lord, and there is much truth in your meditation upon obedience to all that Christ has commanded. The Great Commission is not fulfilled merely in going, nor in baptizing, but in teaching them to observe all things whatsoever He has commanded, Matthew 28:20. We are not at liberty to pick and choose what portion of His Word we shall declare, for the Church of the living God is the pillar and ground of the truth, and as His house she must uphold that truth whether men will hear or whether they will forbear, Ezekiel 2:5.

You have rightly discerned that the discipline of Christ's house has its place in this obedience. When our Lord said, If he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican, Matthew 18:17, He showed that there is a discipline which belongs not to the law but to His own house, over which Christ is Master. This discipline is not exercised in harshness or in the spirit of a slave who cringes under the whip, but in the loyal reverence of sons who fear God because of His greatness and fear themselves because of their own sinfulness. As Noah was moved with holy fear and prepared an ark to the saving of his house, so the faithful church moves with a godly fear, not a servile dread, but a childlike awe which trembles at sin and yet hopes in mercy.

The end of such dealing is not destruction but salvation. The apostle teaches that one may be delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved, and that others also may fear. When sin is left unjudged, the leaven leavens the whole lump, and the Bride of Christ is wounded. When it is dealt with in love, with tears and with prayer, the soul itself may be won, and the whole body is kept from the disease of sin. True repentance, which is the inseparable companion of true faith, is not the vomit of the dog returned to its folly, nor a despairing terror without hope, but a grace wrought by the Holy Spirit which gives God glory, turns from present sin because of love to Him who died, and walks in the light as He is in the light, 1 John 1:7.

Therefore let us hold fast both truths. We must maintain the sovereignty of God who alone saves through faith in Jesus Christ, for there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved, and we must hold the responsibility of man to repent and believe the gospel, Mark 1:15, and to walk in holiness and in the fear of the Lord all the days of his life. The obedience which God accepts is not the obedience of a well trained servant who obeys only under threat, but the obedience of a child, cheerfully rendered, complete and wholehearted, which says not I will go thus far and no further, but Here am I, Lord, do with me as Thou wilt. Such obedience is born of faith. We accept the Lord Jesus by faith and He teaches us obedience and creates it in us.

You are right to remember that the prophets, the apostles, and our Lord Himself spake whether men would hear or not. The Word which He has spoken shall judge men at the last day, John 12:48. Our part is to speak the truth in love, to warn and to entreat, to do so whether the world receive us or reject us, knowing that He has promised, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Let us not seek to be seeker sensitive after the manner of men, nor to run for the favour of the crowd, for we are not man centred but God centred, and we seek not the glory that cometh from men but that which cometh from God only.

Let us pray together that the Lord will make us faithful. Father, grant unto Thy people grace to repent and believe the gospel, to fear Thee and keep Thy commandments, which is the whole duty of man. Give to Thy church wisdom and love to exercise discipline not in pride but in meekness, for the restoring of the erring and the guarding of Thy flock, that sin may be mourned, holiness pursued, and Thy name glorified. Teach us that prompt and entire obedience which flows from faith, and keep us from a slavish fear, giving us instead that filial fear which perfect love nourishes. Grant that whether men hear or forbear, we may be found faithful in declaring Thy whole counsel, trusting Thee for the increase, and resting in the promise that Thou art with us. We ask this not for our own honour, but that Christ may be exalted and sinners saved, through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.