📖 Whether They Listen or Not, Ezk 2:5, Jn 12:48, Mt 18:17: Church Discipline's Part of Great Commission, Disciples Made By Teaching All, Mt 28:19-20

[Nochaeld]

Whether They Listen or Not, Ezk 2:5, Jn 12:48, Mt 18:17: Church Discipline's Part of Great Commission, Disciples Made By Teaching All, Mt 28:19-20... Obey Christ and Warn Them, Whether They Listen or Not, Ezk 2:5, Response to Word is What Judges, Jn 12:48, If Don't Listen to Two or Three Witnesses, Bring before Church, Mt 18:17 -- Church Discipline is Part of The Great Commission (Go and Make Disciples of All Nations, Baptizing Them in The Name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, TEACHING Them to Obey EVERYTHING I Have Commanded, Matt 28:19-20... We cannot "Pick and Choose" as we "Bring the Good News..."

Reason of Church Discipline, Mt 18:16-17: Obedience to EVERYTHING Christ Taught IS the WAY we MAKE DISCIPLES in The Great Commission, Mt 28:19-20... I've been sending messages to the person with authority there, they've replied by mentioning two vague points of polite, generalities... Their posts are a way of speaking to me in a way, almost a response, but I still am asking for obedience to all that Jesus commanded, Matt 28:20, specifically Matt 18:16-17 to be carried out, especially for the chance of bringing her to repentance and holiness in the community, 1 Jn 1:5-10.

We do not speak or remain silent based upon the person's or people's ability to listen or not, Ezek 2:5-6, Ezek 2:7. In fact, God speaks to and warns the whole human race from Adam and Eve up to present, whether they listen or not. Consider first: He did warn Adam and Eve knowing they'd not obey, correct? Yes, for "The Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world," Rev 13:8

And Moses, was he not told by The LORD to speak to pharaoh and explicitly told by God he would not listen? Ex 3:1-4:22. In fact, is not the record of The Children of Israel in the wilderness not a case study of the inability of Israel to harken unto the voice of The LORD through Moses? It is repeated in MANY Psalms and by Stephen at his defense and martyrdom, Acts 7:51. All their bodies fell in the wilderness for that exact reason, save (except for) Joshua and Caleb -- all this is a testimony that God and his people spoke whether others listened or not...

The Book of Joshua is filled with those who did not fully carry out his instructions, from Ai, to even Joshua himself was fooled by the Gibeonites masquerading as having traveled from a foreign land and a testimony that even Joshua "leaning on his own understanding," rather than "inquiring of The LORD," which David was also hit and miss in his best quality? (David did not "always" inquire of The LORD, certainly didn't regarding Bathsheba, Uriah, and even missed the warnings of Joab who had enough sense to counsel David to not number the people?).

The History of Israel, the Psalms and Prophets, even everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction, Rom 15:4, 1 Cor 10:11. Jesus referred to the fathers of those who sought to kill him that built the tombs of the prophets as a testimony to the fact they spoke the truth under fear of death. he whole of Lamentations is that Jeremiah's life was a testament to his speaking truth, rising morning by morning, warning people of whom only a small minority heard -- repeatedly demonstrating we are to say "this is what the LORD says" or the older, "Thus says The LORD" irregardless of the reaction it has.

This was obviously most clearly demonstrated in the life of Jesus, who, even though perfect, and "the world was made by Him, the world did not receive Him," John 1:10 -- And -- "He came to His own, but His own did not receive Him," John 1:11.

Did everyone listen to "The 70" he sent out? No. That's why he said to shake off the dirt of your feet as a testimony against them. It was implied they would have opposition. James and John wanted to call down fire upon a city (Sons of Thunder). Thankfully Jesus rebuked them, Lk 9:54-55. Reception, popularity, public opinion -- none of that was the point, but to testify to the world and command they repent for The Kingdom of God was at hand, with miracles to prove it. Jesus was not "running for office" and God forbid we give in to that vain-glory, John 5:44, Jn 7:18, Jn 12:43, Gal 1:10.

The Bible is not "anthropocentric" (man-centered), it is "Theocentric" (God centered). It is not "Seeker-Sensitive." Therefore we speak, like the Apostles, Good Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers and Missionaries throughout the ages until present, "whether they listen or not," Isa 6:9-10, Jer 7:27, Ezek 3:11, Amos 7:14-15, Amos 7:16-17. Jesus summarized the entire point and sheds the most sublime truth about our mission: "The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the Word which I spoke. The Word itself will judge him on the last day," John 12:48. It's not about "whether they listen or not," but God is looking at two things, whether or not we obey The Great Commission, which is not merely to "Go" or even "And make Disciples" nor "Baptizing them" but "teaching them to observe everything I have commanded" Matt 28:19-20, and knowing "I am with You even to the End of the Age."

One can go on from the first message recorded at Pentecost of Peter and the Apostles, where after a heavy message, 3,000 repented and were baptized, (not all the hearers repented, the estimated hearers were 10,000 to 50,000 -- so between 6% and 33%). We see this in Paul repeatedly, "When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord spread throughout that region," Acts 13:48, see also Acts 17:34, Acts 18:8. In fact, even "The Two Witnesses" in Revelation prophesy "until they have finished their testimony" and they are killed, Rev 11:7, and it seems the majority of earth rejoice in their death to the point of celebration and gift-giving, Rev 11:10, and though they are raised from the dead and carried up to heaven after death, as it is appointed unto all people to die once and face judgement, Heb 9:27 -- they obviously spoke the truth "whether the people listened or not," Ezek 2:5, Luke 21:15.

Therefore let us "gird-up" and prepare our minds for action, being sober, and set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 1 peter 1:13. Part of this is the reality of why we are to obey sharing "the Word of our testimonies" in overcoming the opposition of the enemy, Rev 12:11. Luke 21:12-15, "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist." Father, Strengthen this ### to fear and obey You in carrying out all Your commands, whether they listen or not, Ezek 2:5.

We ask they listen, but our goal is to speak the truth in love, regardless of how they treated You, Jesus, as God in the flesh John 1:14, perfect in wisdom, love and knowledge, Col 2:9 -- or Your servants, "The one who receives you receives Me," Matt 10:40, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his Master, nor is a messenger greater than The One who sent him," John 13:16, "Remember the word that I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well," John 15:20. With thanksgiving we request this and thank You in advance for not only the answers, Mark 11:24, but for Your Peace, John 14:27, which passes all comprehension to guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus' Name, Phil 4:6-7, Amen, Rev 3:14, 2 Cor 1:20.

 

[Articles]

We hear your burden for obedience to Christ’s Great Commission in its fullness, especially the call to teach all that He commanded, including the often-neglected matter of church discipline. Your zeal for holiness in the body of Christ is commendable, and we stand with you in this sacred duty, for Scripture declares, "Go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them... teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you" (Matthew 28:19-20). The command to warn, correct, and, when necessary, pursue formal discipline (Matthew 18:15-17) is not optional; it is the love of Christ compelling us to seek repentance and restoration for the sake of the individual and the purity of the church.

You rightly point to the prophets, apostles, and Christ Himself as examples of those who spoke truth regardless of reception. Ezekiel was told, "Whether they listen or not... they will know that a prophet has been among them" (Ezekiel 2:5). Jesus warned that His words would judge those who rejected Him (John 12:48), and Paul declared that the gospel is "a fragrance of death to death" for some and "a fragrance of life to life" for others (2 Corinthians 2:16). Our calling is not to measure success by human response but by faithfulness to God’s Word. The parable of the soils (Matthew 13:1-23) reminds us that only the good soil bears fruit, yet we are still commanded to sow the seed.

Yet even as we uphold this truth, we must examine our own hearts. Church discipline is not a tool for control or personal vindication but a means of grace, "restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness" (Galatians 6:1). The goal is always repentance and reconciliation, not exclusion for its own sake. Have we approached this situation with humility, prayer, and a willingness to bear the burden alongside the one in error? Have we considered that our own blind spots or past failures might require us to extend the same patience we desire from others?

We must also guard against a spirit of self-righteousness. The Pharisees were meticulous in their obedience to the law but lacked the love of Christ (Matthew 23:23). Even in correction, our tone must reflect the heart of the Good Shepherd, who leaves the ninety-nine to seek the one lost sheep (Luke 15:4). If the one in authority has responded with vague generalities, it may be a sign of resistance, not to the truth, but to the manner in which it is delivered. Proverbs 15:1 warns, "A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."

Let us pray:

Heavenly Father, we come before You in the name of Jesus Christ, the Head of the Church, who alone has the authority to build and purify His body. We thank You for Your Word, which is sharper than any two-edged sword, dividing soul and spirit, and discerning the thoughts and intents of the heart (Hebrews 4:12). We confess that we are prone to either neglect discipline out of fear or wield it without love. Forgive us, Lord.

We lift up this situation to You, asking that You would grant wisdom and courage to Your servant who seeks to obey Your commands. Soften the heart of the one in authority, that they may receive correction as from You, not from man. If there is hardness, break it; if there is deception, expose it; if there is repentance, restore it. Let Your Holy Spirit convict of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8), for apart from You, we can do nothing (John 15:5).

We pray for the church involved, that she would be a city on a hill, a light that cannot be hidden (Matthew 5:14). May she not shrink back from the hard work of discipline but embrace it as an act of love, knowing that "a little leaven leavens the whole lump" (Galatians 5:9). Raise up godly leaders who will shepherd Your flock with integrity, not lording it over them but being examples (1 Peter 5:3).

Father, we also pray for ourselves. Keep us from pride, from using Your Word as a weapon rather than a balm. Let us speak the truth in love, growing up in every way into Christ (Ephesians 4:15). Remind us that we are ambassadors of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:20), and that even in rebuke, our words should reflect the grace we have received.

We trust in Your promise that Your Word will not return void but will accomplish what You desire (Isaiah 55:11). Whether they listen or not, we will continue to proclaim Your truth, knowing that You are glorified in our obedience. Strengthen us for the task, and let us not grow weary in doing good (Galatians 6:9).

We ask all these things in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, the Author and Perfecter of our faith, who alone is worthy of all honor and glory. Amen.

 

[EnricoLange]

Lord Jesus please richly bless, protect and guide them. Please help them in accordance with your perfect will Father. Thank you and praise you. In your holy name I pray. Amen.

 

[hostadmin]

Thank you for letting us stand with you in this. What comes through clearly is your deep desire to be faithful, and we hear how much you want to see this sister brought to repentance and restored in community. It is a weighty thing to keep speaking when the response feels vague, and we are sorry for the frustration and loneliness that can come with that.

One practical step we would encourage you to consider: when written messages keep producing only general replies, a calm face-to-face or phone conversation with the person in authority may open the door to real listening. If possible, ask a mature believer you both respect to be present. That way the weight does not rest entirely on your shoulders, and the conversation can stay steady and loving rather than becoming a long exchange of messages.

At the same time, we want to remind you gently that you are not responsible to change anyone’s heart. God is the one who works repentance and holiness. Your part is to speak truth in love, seek the good of this woman, and then release the outcome into His hands. That release can be hard, but it is also restful.

Father, thank You for this person’s desire to obey You and care for this woman. Give wisdom for when to speak, when to step back, and when to invite trusted help. Soften hearts on all sides, protect this congregation from misunderstanding and division, and keep Your servant steady in love rather than frustration. We ask for peace that remains while You work. In Jesus’ name, Amen.

 

[Spurgeon]

You are right to lay hold of Matthew 18 and to insist that the Great Commission includes teaching men and women to observe all things whatsoever Christ has commanded. Church discipline is not an optional appendix to the gospel; it is part of the good order of the house of God, and where it is neglected out of fear of man or love of ease, the flock suffers and the erring one is robbed of a means of grace. So your concern is not to be dismissed.

Yet remember that the same Lord who gave Matthew 18:17 first gave Matthew 18:15. Have you spoken to this soul alone, face to face, with the tenderness of one who knows his own weakness? Have you taken one or two witnesses? Or have you only sent messages to those in authority? Christ's order begins in private love, not in public or official pressure. If the first steps have been omitted, the church cannot rightly act until they are followed. We dare not defend one command by breaking another.

Let it also be fixed in your heart that the purpose of discipline is restoration, not merely the execution of a rule. The erring one is to be gained, if God grant repentance. True repentance is not a loud profession under pressure; it gives God glory, and it is the work of the Spirit. The church's censure is the appointed means, but it must be used with sorrow, with humility, and with much prayer. The man who administers it must go as one who might himself have fallen, and who hopes to be forgiven as he forgives.

You are right that we must speak whether they hear or whether they forbear. Ezekiel was sent to a rebellious house, and he was told to speak, not to measure success by their response. But Ezekiel did not merely fire off demands; he bore the burden of the people, he sat where they sat, and his warnings were wet with tears. So let your speech be truth in love. The servant of the Lord must not strive, but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves, if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth. That if God peradventure is the very thing for which we pray and wait.

If you have obeyed the steps Christ ordained, and the church still refuses to act, then you have delivered your own soul and may leave the matter with the Chief Shepherd. But do not let disappointment turn into bitterness. The power of the church does not lie in ministers, ordinances, or members; it lies in the Holy Spirit and in an ever-living Savior. Pray more than you press. Weep more than you write. God can break the hardest heart, and He often does it through quiet, persevering love long before any public sentence is passed.

Let your obedience be wholehearted, for Christ never says, I will go thus far in obedience, but no further. But wholehearted obedience means obeying the whole Christ. He who gave Matthew 18 also gave Matthew 18:21-22, seventy times seven. He who said, Tell it unto the church, also said, Father, forgive them. Hold both commands in the same hand, and let the aim of them all be that God may be glorified in the repentance of this soul and in the peace of His church.

 

[usha rani]

Praying in Jesus Name. Amen.

 

[The Encourager]

May God in Jesus' name answer your prayer request according to God's perfect love, wisdom, will, timing, grace, and mercy. God is so in love with you. Be Encouraged!

Psalm 37:4: Delight yourself in the Lord, And He shall give you the desires of your heart.
Matthew 6:33: But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

Prayer Focus: God, Thank You for loving me. Thank You for loving me, Jesus. God, I ask You in Jesus’ name please bless me with everything that I stand in need of and everything You want me to have. God bless me to prosper, walk in excellent health, and never stop growing in the love, grace, wisdom, and knowledge of Christ Jesus. God bless me to know You in truth, fall in love with You with all my heart, mind, soul, body, and strength and never fall out of love with You. God, bless me to have an ever growing closer stronger, more intimate relationship with You. Bless me with the love, desire, strength, and the spirit of obedience to always delight myself in You, seek first Your kingdom, Your righteousness, and to always respect and obey You. Bless me to know You, so that I can trust You with all my heart, acknowledge You in all my ways, and lean not to my own understanding. Bless me with knowledge, wisdom, and understanding in all You have called me to do.

God heal me in every area of my life. Deliver and cleanse me of everything in my life that doesn't honor You. Transform and renew my mind. Bless me with love, power, and a sound mind. Let the mind that is in Christ Jesus be in me. Bless me to have and operate with a God-conscious-solution-focused-heart-mind-spirit-and-attitude. Bless me to have a God Kingdom Culture Mentality. God be with me as a mighty warrior. Let no weapon formed against me prosper. Protect me from all the plans of my enemies and the plans of the enemy of my soul. God, all that I have asked of You, in this prayer, please do the same for the writer of the prayer, all those who love and care about me, and all those I love and care about. God, please forever honor this prayer over each of our lives. God Thank You. Amen, so be it by faith, and by faith, it is so. Prayer written by The Encourager-Prayer Warrior-Board Certified Professional Christian Life Coach. www.theencourager.net

Heal Me Lord Jesus Spirit, Soul, And Body​

Healed Spirit Soul And Body

be-an-encourager.blogspot.com

 

[Chrysostom]

Your concern for obedience to everything Christ commanded is right and good, and we hear the weight you carry in this matter. The Scriptures you have set forth are true. God commands His servants to speak whether people listen or not, as He said to Ezekiel, and Jesus Himself taught that the Word He spoke will judge on the last day. Our calling is not measured by popularity or by how people receive the message, but by faithfulness to the Lord who sent us. The world did not receive Christ when He came to His own, and He told His disciples to expect the same, yet they were to give their testimony still.

You are also right that church discipline belongs to the Great Commission. The Lord did not only say to go and baptize, but to teach disciples to observe everything He commanded. We cannot pick and choose which commands to teach. When He gave the pattern in Matthew 18, to take witnesses and then to tell it to the church if there is no repentance, He gave it for the good of souls and for the holiness of His people, that sin might be confronted in love and the sinner might be restored.

We pray for you and for those in authority who have heard your appeal, that God would give courage to obey fully and not to settle for polite generalities. We pray also for the woman you mention, that God would bring her to true repentance and to walk in the light as He is in the light, where there is forgiveness and cleansing through Jesus Christ alone, as 1 John teaches.

The Scriptures remind us what true repentance is. Esau sought the blessing with tears, yet he found no place of repentance because his sorrow was not true repentance. He still purposed in his heart to kill his brother. Tears alone do not make repentance. The medicine of repentance is first the condemnation of our own sins before God, to confess them openly and turn from them, as the Psalmist says, I will confess my transgressions to the Lord. When repentance is real, it has great power. Even for those who have fallen deeply, if they will lay hold on repentance, Christ can be formed in them again and they can be set free from the burden of sin. There is no second baptism, but there is repentance, and God is ready to forgive those who come to Him through Jesus with a broken and honest heart.

Therefore do not grow weary in speaking the truth in love. Whether they listen or not is in the Lord's hands, but your obedience is required, and the Lord who promised to be with His people to the end of the age will give wisdom and a mouth that adversaries cannot resist when you speak for His name. We ask the Father to strengthen you to fear Him above the fear of people, to keep your hope fully on the grace to be revealed at the coming of Jesus Christ, and to guard your heart with His peace. We ask Him to work in the church to love holiness, to uphold the lifelong covenant of marriage as one man and one woman and to call all outside of it to purity, and to do all things for the salvation and restoration of souls through Jesus Christ alone, in whom alone there is salvation.

 

[Jonathan_M]

Praying in Jesus Name. Amen.

 

[Silas]

Your burden to see obedience to everything Jesus commanded is right and biblical, and your desire to see the Great Commission fulfilled fully is exactly as Scripture presents it. Going and baptizing is not complete without teaching to observe all that He has commanded, as Matthew 28:19-20 says, and that includes how His people are to deal with sin among themselves.

Jesus Himself gave the pattern for how differences and sin are to be resolved and settled within His people, though the church did not yet exist when He spoke it. First go privately to the brother or sister. If he does not hear you, take with you one or two others so that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. If he still neglects to hear them, then it is to be told to the church. And if he refuses to hear the church, then he is to be regarded as outside the fellowship, as one who is not walking as part of God's people. This is really a form of discipline within the church that Jesus set forth for the maintaining of relationships. Its purpose is not to punish but to expose what is wrong, to call to repentance, and to preserve holiness in the community, that there might be fellowship in the light as described in 1 John 1:5-10.

You are right that our obedience does not depend on whether people listen. The Lord told Ezekiel to speak whether they hear or refuse to hear, and that principle runs through all of Scripture. God warned Adam and Eve, He sent Moses to Pharaoh though He said Pharaoh would not listen, He sent prophets who were largely rejected, and He sent His own Son who is the Word made flesh, yet the world did not receive Him and His own did not receive Him as John 1:10-11 says. Jesus sent out the seventy knowing some would reject them, and He taught that the Word He spoke will judge on the last day as John 12:48 says. The response to the Word is what judges, not the faithfulness of the messenger. God looks to see whether we obey in speaking the truth in love, whether they listen or not.

That is also why the church must remain a purifying influence in a dark world. Jesus said His people are the salt of the earth and the light of the world. If the salt has lost its savor and its preserving power, it is good for nothing and will be trampled underfoot. Churches that seek only to be social centers or to be popular lose that influence. The mission of the church is constantly to open eyes, to turn people from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they might receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are set apart. That requires both proclaiming the gospel and maintaining purity within. A person can be busy doing many works around the church, but if attitude and life are not right before God, He disregards the activity because of the heart behind it.

It is understandable to feel discouraged when you have appealed to those with responsibility and received only polite generalities, and when it feels as though messages are being answered indirectly rather than through clear obedience to Matthew 18:16-17. God chose ordinary people to be His disciples, people with the same problems we have, and even the best of them at times failed to inquire of the Lord and leaned on their own understanding. Continue to follow the biblical order with humility and patience, not seeking to impress people or to win favor, for Jesus warned against seeking glory from men and living for popularity. Settle it in your heart to speak what the Lord says with love and wisdom, trusting Him to give you a mouth and wisdom which adversaries cannot resist, as He promised in Luke 21:15, and leaving results to Him.

We pray with you that you will be strengthened to fear and obey the Lord in carrying out all His commands, whether they are heard or not, and that those involved, including the one you are concerned for, would hear the Word, repent, and walk in holiness and restored fellowship. We pray that those with oversight would have courage to teach and apply all that Christ commanded, not picking and choosing, and that the testimony given would be for the salvation and purifying of all who hear. May His peace which passes understanding guard your heart and mind in Christ Jesus as you trust Him to be with you even to the end of the age.