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Does he have the rapture correct?
- Thread starter Brother James
- Start date
Brother in Christ (JC)
Beloved of All
42:38
Brother ### rapture is such a hot topic for many with so many views. Many Christians don't believe in rapture. I usually try to avoid this topic because it usually generates ill feelings amongst the Christians. Brother you ask so I must say that I respectfully disagree with him.
Matthew 24:22-31 For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (Why would there be the need to shortened those days for the elects if they are supposed to be raptured out?)
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. ( everyone is going to know Jesus is coming. It will be an event, not a secret) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
IMMEDIATELY...
1 ) AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
2) AND THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
3) and they (angels) shall gather together his elect from the four winds, (after point 1 tribulation. The Angel's are gathering the 'elects' after tribulation) from one end of heaven to the other."
Mark 13:30
“Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass (the disciples), till all these things be done.”
King James Version (KJV)
I will not worry about rapture. My Spiritual lamp is my only concern. Let it shine brightly!
No offense to anyone, I simply see rapture as a distraction. Our example and living template is our Saviour. He faced extreme persecution and so will we.
And He also said:
John 15:20 (ESV)
20 Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.
Also
2 Timothy 3:12 (ESV)
12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
1 Peter 4:12 (ESV)
12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.
Focus on God. Count the cost and take up your cross. For your time on earth (your personal life span) is but a twinkling of an eye!
Praise You Jesus and keep me strong.
Nothing but ❤ for all of you!
(I'm a brother with a different view)
Brother James
Beloved of All
No worries my brother, I respect your opinion. There is a rapture coming. I believed it to be like you described but there are those who will go through the great tribulation. Is there possibly 2 raptures? He does speak of a first rapture. I'm trying to find the verse. The verses that you mentioned spoke mainly of the last day, after the tribulation. I have watched this Pastor a few times, he is not telling us that Jesus is anywhere for us to visit.
Brother James
Beloved of All
I know that the rapture is a bit of a complex subject but I did find the verse or at least one of the verses I was looking for...
Revelation 20:6
“Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
King James Version (KJV)
Brother in Christ (JC)
Beloved of All
Thank you ###.
Another way of interpreting this verse is we die once but are resurrected and will not partake of a second death.
Matthew 10:28
“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: (two deaths are implied)
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
This verse talks about the first death and then a possible second death. (two deaths are implied)
Hebrews 9:27
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
Revelation 20:14
“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
ROMANS 6:8
But if we are dead with Christ, we have faith that we will be living with him;
- Basic English Bible
There's so many interpretations. I believe with all my heart that we will all die. We are appointed to die once. Our Master died. Those who died in Christ will live forever. Whether we are right or wrong, our faith in God and Jesus will carry us into heaven.
Praise God!
Steven Bobb
Beloved of All
As for "We will all die," explain, "The dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are ALIVE and remain shall be caught up together with them in the air to meet the Lord in the air." Also, "behold, we shall not all sleep{Biblical term for death} BUT we shall be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye." We shall all die, the Antichrist and the false prophet, "While both ALIVE, they both were cast into the lake of fire burning with brimstone."
Brother in Christ (JC)
Beloved of All
```markdown
THESSALONIANS 4:13...
Paul is writing to a group of people who were concerned about their 'sleeping' loved ones. What will happen to those ones. Will they be left behind? But Paul tells them not to grieve over this: "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus [believers who had died]" (verse 14).
Paul WAS NOT addressing worries about whether Christ would rescue believers from the Great Tribulation. Not at all!
Nor is there anything in these verses that implies that Christ will make a swooping pass over the earth to snatch off a few people to take them to heaven.
Brother ### there are verses throughout the Bible that talk about the Messiah's return. Jesus came once, died and returned for a while and stayed with the disciples. Already Jesus has been here twice. This is where we need to navigate through the Bible with clear minds and hearts, when examining scriptures. Rapture wants us to accept that Jesus will come back to take some away (3rd visit) and then come back again on a 4th visit!
Jesus Himself spoke of the endtimes expecting His disciples to witness these endtime events:
Mark 13:30
“Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass (the disciples), till all these things be done.”
King James Version (KJV)
Jesus NEVER spoke about removing His people from tribulation.
Yes we will all be changed because the corruptible cannot inherit Heaven.
Jesus has already been on earth twice. I don't believe that the Bible supports the idea that He will come three times before His final return. Show me where it says that Jesus will return 4 times.
1. First visit: Jesus the man and Sacrifice.
2. Second visit: Jesus the Resurrected and Saviour.
3. Third visit: Jesus the Rescuer of a few.
4. Jesus the final return.
Wow!
I will just focus on God! I'll keep my Spiritual lamp burning in the 'here and now'.
Stay in the 'here and now' with our Jesus. I count each day as a blessing and see all my tribulations on earth as a proving ground for heaven.
Brother ###, I humbly and respectfully disagree with the rapture teaching.
Nothing but ❤
```
Brother ### many believe as I do, that those two infamous and fundamental verses of the rapture doctrines, are being taken out of context and misinterpreted.
THESSALONIANS 4:13...
Paul is writing to a group of people who were concerned about their 'sleeping' loved ones. What will happen to those ones. Will they be left behind? But Paul tells them not to grieve over this: "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus [believers who had died]" (verse 14).
Paul WAS NOT addressing worries about whether Christ would rescue believers from the Great Tribulation. Not at all!
Nor is there anything in these verses that implies that Christ will make a swooping pass over the earth to snatch off a few people to take them to heaven.
Brother ### there are verses throughout the Bible that talk about the Messiah's return. Jesus came once, died and returned for a while and stayed with the disciples. Already Jesus has been here twice. This is where we need to navigate through the Bible with clear minds and hearts, when examining scriptures. Rapture wants us to accept that Jesus will come back to take some away (3rd visit) and then come back again on a 4th visit!
Jesus Himself spoke of the endtimes expecting His disciples to witness these endtime events:
Mark 13:30
“Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass (the disciples), till all these things be done.”
King James Version (KJV)
Jesus NEVER spoke about removing His people from tribulation.
Yes we will all be changed because the corruptible cannot inherit Heaven.
Jesus has already been on earth twice. I don't believe that the Bible supports the idea that He will come three times before His final return. Show me where it says that Jesus will return 4 times.
1. First visit: Jesus the man and Sacrifice.
2. Second visit: Jesus the Resurrected and Saviour.
3. Third visit: Jesus the Rescuer of a few.
4. Jesus the final return.
Wow!
I will just focus on God! I'll keep my Spiritual lamp burning in the 'here and now'.
Stay in the 'here and now' with our Jesus. I count each day as a blessing and see all my tribulations on earth as a proving ground for heaven.
Brother ###, I humbly and respectfully disagree with the rapture teaching.
Nothing but ❤
```
Steven Bobb
Beloved of All
Not "to the Earth" 3 times, in the Rapture He meets us in the air. But if that's how you were taught, that there's no Rapture...
Brother in Christ (JC)
Beloved of All
Clever! Brother I'm talking about the return of Jesus. Rapture includes 2 other visitations totalling four visits from Jesus. Unless of course rapture is done secretly.
Let's examine that!
Jesus never once spoke of pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib. Jesus never spoke of rapture. Jesus stated that his return will be visible for everyone to see;
For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matthew 24:27
Why do you not quote from the above chapter? The chapter that Jesus Himself addresses endtimes and His coming. Jesus is talking about His return. If there was a time to talk about rapture, Jesus would have surely mentioned it here. Jesus is explaining how some will try to deceive others by saying that the Son of man has returned and that He is over there or over there. But Jesus states don't believe them because His return will be eventful, for everyone to see. No secret entry and departure with a few special elites.
The disciples ask when will all the endtime signs be including His return. No mention of rapture. How can Jesus not talk about rapture in a chapter dedicated to endtimes and His coming?
Here are some hard facts:
1. Jesus' return will be eventful for everyone to see;
2. Matthew 24 predominantly addresses our Lord's return and endtime event, along with the temple destruction;
3. Jesus explains His coming but never talks about rapture or anything resembling it;
4. Rapture is a relatively new teaching that was introduced around 1770 by Baptist leader ###. It should be noted that ### believed that the tribulation would only be 3.5 years long.
Many, many Christians don't believe in rapture. I have laboured enough on this topic.
Brother ### our only concern is our present relationship with God. You are a sovereign person able to draw your own conclusion. I am not bitter that we do not share the same view. We will know at the end.
Steven Bobb
Beloved of All
The rapture and the Second coming are 2 different events. Any time I watch a tv ministry, they emphasize that. I think you're confusing the 2 events with each other. Also, whenever someone posts about end time occurrences, you seem to say it's not important to focus on, stay in the present. Not everyone sees it that way. "Be aware, that the day not come upon you like a thief." It's like when someone posts something about end time things, it sets off this defense against it. But that's your thing, and some see it differently, but in the bigger picture, what will pan out will pan out,...
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