Ok, we know that someone in their sinful state cannot enter Heaven.{Unless they accept the salvation plan.}We also know that God is no respecter of persons.Now Adam and Eve fell from grace.That means their bodies were in their same sinful state as their descendants_us!!Yet on most Christian forums, when asked this question,overwhelmingly the answer is,Adam and Eve went to Heaven upon death.{Which, if they didn't repent, would override Gods edict about sin can't enter Heaven, and worse, make it look like God is playing favorites by giving them a special break.}Also, the point that God "overlooked" because they didn't have the knowledge doesn't apply, because God clearly told them not to do that.I say, it depends on if they acknowledged and repented of the sin,and turned back to Gods way,they went to Heaven.But I don't think we should AUTOMATICLLY say they went to Heaven,like 99% of Christians believe.If there's a scripture to show that Adam and Eve repented, that would be proof that they went to Heaven. If there's no statement one way or the other, by proclaiming they went to Heaven is just our opinion.
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Did Adam and Eve go to Heaven or Hell?
- Thread starter Steven Bobb
- Start date
Brother James
Beloved of All
7 minutes ago, Steven Bobb said:
If hearing alone gets you saved, explain the thousands of people who have heard the Gospel, and not all of them got saved.Many HEAR it, but reject it.Isn't accepting it more important then JUST hearing it?
To truly hear the Word of God means to do the Word of God. To accept God's Word means to do God's Word. What don't you get about that?
Steven Bobb
Beloved of All
2 minutes ago, Brother James said:
To truly hear the Word of God means to do the Word of God. To accept God's Word means to do God's Word. What don't you get about that?
Yes, ACCEPT.But just hearing it, there are many unsaved people who might go to a church service at the behest of a Christian friend, hear it perfectly, but reject it and remain unsaved.Anyone can hear it, it's if they act upon it,and accept it that gets it done.If an unsaved person hears it, but says,"that's nonsence. I don't buy that".I think you made a point when you said,TRULY hear the Word of God,not let it go in one ear and out the other.Jesus did say,"Be not a hearer of the word, but a doer of the Word".If hearing alone made you a great Christian, why would He differerenciate between JUST hearing and doing?There are many people who have heard the Gospel, but blew it off.You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Brother James
Beloved of All
If you are worried about your salvation or even someone else's than pray for them and leave it in God's hand 
If you wonder about Adam and Eve or anyone else in the Bible, ask God to reveal to you while studying His Word
If you wonder about Adam and Eve or anyone else in the Bible, ask God to reveal to you while studying His Word
Intercessor
Beloved of All
2 hours ago, Steven Bobb said:
Yes, ACCEPT.But just hearing it, there are many unsaved people who might go to a church service at the behest of a Christian friend, hear it perfectly, but reject it and remain unsaved.Anyone can hear it, it's if they act upon it,and accept it that gets it done.If an unsaved person hears it, but says,"that's nonsence. I don't buy that".I think you made a point when you said,TRULY hear the Word of God,not let it go in one ear and out the other.Jesus did say,"Be not a hearer of the word, but a doer of the Word".If hearing alone made you a great Christian, why would He differerenciate between JUST hearing and doing?There are many people who have heard the Gospel, but blew it off.You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Steven, please read the whole of Romans 10:17 -- It doesn't say they were saved by hearing... It says "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" -- "By grace we have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, lest any man should boast" (Eph 2:8-9).
Ok, so I had better go slowly here... We are saved by grace through faith which comes from hearing the Word of God... Adam and Eve believed the Messiah would come through the seed of the woman directly from God's mouth and were saved and God sacrificed animals (took the life of the innocent) to show them sin cost the life of something innocent. He didn't receive their "fig leaves" for it was from the ground but required blood for not only atonement but also to prophesy Christ's the seed of the woman's death and what to have his heel bruised meant.
This is why God accepted Abel's offering but had no regard for Cain's. He had already established a very important precedent and didn't want the fruit of his labor but the life of something innocent to remind Him of what His Son would do in time, and for us to look forward to that day before Jesus and take communion "in remembrance" of what He did afterward and "proclaim the Lord's death until He comes" (Luke 22:19, 1 Cor 11:25-26).
Please pray for understanding as you read the Word -- Like Brother James says... Pray (Ask God for) understanding. It is and always will be one of my number one prayer requests, (Eph 1:17).
Intercessor
Beloved of All
3 hours ago, Brother James said:
To truly hear the Word of God means to do the Word of God. To accept God's Word means to do God's Word. What don't you get about that?
Yes, to believe the gospel is to obey the gospel... That's why Paul says in Romans 1:5, "through Him we have received grace and apostleship to call all the gentiles to the obedience that comes through faith" -- "obedient faith" is the only real faith there is -- The whole Book of James is never finished teaching this), but we must not think we can take the credit for that faith -- it is by grace we are saved through faith, and that not from ourselves, it is the gift of God, not a result of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God predestined (or prepared) in advance for us to do" (Eph 2:8-10).
The best way to sum this up is oddly enough by concluding with the Greek Word for unbelief AND disobedience -- apeithia -- from whence we get the word "apathy" -- to have a non-chalent response is to have an unbelieving response to the gospel -- the word "disobey" in Greek is apeithia -- the word for "unbelief" is apeithea...
So it remains WHAT is the Gospel we are believing and obeying???
That the Son of the Living God should come to earth to suffer injustice from mere humans, to be betrayed by a "friend" and to put up with the true non-sense of the false rabbinical hypocritical teachings, to die a naked death on the cross and be given vinegar for his last earthly drink while suffering from loss of blood before His death for us because death was part of the curse from the fall that man could not undo. But then He not only had the power to lay down His life, but the power to raise it up again, received from the Father, for He is the Son of Man.
15 Yet I have written you quite boldly on some points to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me 16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles. He gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
17 Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. 18 I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— 19 by the power of signs and wonders, through the power of the Spirit of God. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ. 20 It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation. 21 Rather, as it is written:
“Those who were not told about him will see,
and those who have not heard will understand.”[a]
Footnotes:
Romans 15:21 Isaiah 52:15 (see Septuagint)
New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.
Steven Bobb
Beloved of All
2 hours ago, Intercessor said:
Steven, please read the whole of Romans 10:17 -- It doesn't say they were saved by hearing... It says "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" -- "By grace we have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, lest any man should boast" (Eph 2:8-9).
Ok, so I had better go slowly here... We are saved by grace through faith which comes from hearing the Word of God... Adam and Eve believed the Messiah would come through the seed of the woman directly from God's mouth and were saved and God sacrificed animals (took the life of the innocent) to show them sin cost the life of something innocent. He didn't receive their "fig leaves" for it was from the ground but required blood for not only atonement but also to prophesy Christ's the seed of the woman's death and what to have his heel bruised meant.
This is why God accepted Abel's offering but had no regard for Cain's. He had already established a very important precedent and didn't want the fruit of his labor but the life of something innocent to remind Him of what His Son would do in time, and for us to look forward to that day before Jesus and take communion "in remembrance" of what He did afterward and "proclaim the Lord's death until He comes" (Luke 22:19, 1 Cor 11:25-26).
Please pray for understanding as you read the Word -- Like Brother James says... Pray (Ask God for) understanding. It is and always will be one of my number one prayer requests, (Eph 1:17).
I'll check out Romans 10:17,but still the thing that stands out is, even with hearing bringing the other pieces of the puzzle into it__is how come Christians witness to unsaved friends and loved ones,bring them to church, and they remain obstinate.I say the Spirit still has to move them, personally.If their mind is closed from the get go,and they harden their hearts to it, they can remain unsaved.
Intercessor
Beloved of All
30 minutes ago, Steven Bobb said:
I'll check out Romans 10:17,but still the thing that stands out is, even with hearing bringing the other pieces of the puzzle into it__is how come Christians witness to unsaved friends and loved ones,bring them to church, and they remain obstinate.I say the Spirit still has to move them, personally.If their mind is closed from the get go,and they harden their hearts to it, they can remain unsaved.
Again, it is that faith comes from hearing, not salvation from hearing, Steven... Salvation is by faith and faith comes from hearing... There are two reasons people can remain unsaved... One is that our gospel is much weaker than that preached by the apostles both in signs and wonders and in the lifestyle of the vessel. By that I mean few of us are actually living a life like Paul or Peter, seeing miracles when we pray for the sick and getting arrested and beaten for the gospel on a fairly regular basis...
The second has to do with a topic that people don't understand much so I will not worry about that... Just know you can't use American or European Christianity as a correct litmus test of who is accurately responding to the gospel because, as we see here, the gospel itself isn't even understood very well anymore -- how then can it be preached accurately? Paul explains the gospel in Chapters 1-9 before He says faith comes from hearing it preached... By the way, preaching is God's ordained method of salvation -- The foolishness of the message preached,
"18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God" (1 Cor 1:18-24).
I'm glad this topic is about the gospel or else I'd be tired by now -- but since it is not understood very well I don't mind explaining it -- but it actually is to be announced -- it is God the Creator's non-negotiable means of salvation for a lost and dying, fallen, creation that can not be altered only accepted or denied. It is to be announced the way a King would proclaim something like the whole world is to be taxed and everyone must go to their city of registry (Luke 2:1-5).
It is a command from Jesus, "15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned" Mark 15:15-16. So even Jesus didn't expect everyone to believe or he wouldn't have warned what happens to those who disbelieve (or disobey God by ignoring His way of salvation for the world). That's the tough part I think the world doesn't get is that there is no plan B for humanity. Accept this and live. Don't and you are already dead in sins as John quotes Jesus explaining...
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:16-21).
Steven Bobb
Beloved of All
5 minutes ago, Intercessor said:
Again, it is that faith comes from hearing, not salvation from hearing, Steven... Salvation is by faith and faith comes from hearing... There are two reasons people can remain unsaved... One is that our gospel is much weaker than that preached by the apostles both in signs and wonders and in the lifestyle of the vessel. By that I mean few of us are actually living a life like Paul or Peter, seeing miracles when we pray for the sick and getting arrested and beaten for the gospel on a fairly regular basis...
The second has to do with a topic that people don't understand much so I will not worry about that... Just know you can't use American or European Christianity as a correct litmus test of who is accurately responding to the gospel because, as we see here, the gospel itself isn't even understood very well anymore -- how then can it be preached accurately? Paul explains the gospel in Chapters 1-9 before He says faith comes from hearing it preached... By the way, preaching is God's ordained method of salvation -- The foolishness of the message preached (1 Cor 15).
I'm glad this topic is about the gospel or else I'd be tired by now -- but since it is not understood very well I don't mind explaining it -- but it actually is to be announced -- it is God the Creator's non-negotiable means of salvation for a lost and dying, fallen, creation that can not be altered only accepted or denied. It is to be announced the way a King would proclaim something like the whole world is to be taxed and everyone must go to their city of registry (Luke 2:1-5).
It is a command from Jesus, "15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned" Mark 15:15-16. So even Jesus didn't expect everyone to believe or he wouldn't have warned what happens to those who disbelieve (or disobey God by ignoring His way of salvation for the world). That's the tough part I think the world doesn't get is that there is no plan B for humanity. Accept this and live.
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:16-21).
Let's see if you would agree with this__I'd say faith is the most important. Hearing ,they can resist. Even belief,"the demons also believe and tremble",yet we know no demon is saved.But faith, meaning we accept the Word,and Gods salvation plan,and of course live by it.,and obey it. I would say that's the strongest part of the process.Also, some Hal Lindsey books I've read focus on this kind of subject. You might like Satan is alive and well on planet Earth.There's a new world coming is another, about the prophecies in the Book of Revelation.I recommend them.{probably out of print,but online..}.
Brother James
Beloved of All
2 hours ago, Intercessor said:
Yes, to believe the gospel is to obey the gospel... That's why Paul says in Romans 1:5, "through Him we have received grace and apostleship to call all the gentiles to the obedience that comes through faith" -- "obedient faith" is the only real faith there is -- The whole Book of James is never finished teaching this), but we must not think we can take the credit for that faith -- it is by grace we are saved through faith, and that not from ourselves, it is the gift of God, not a result of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God predestined (or prepared) in advance for us to do" (Eph 2:8-10).
The best way to sum this up is oddly enough by concluding with the Greek Word for unbelief AND disobedience -- apeithia -- from whence we get the word "apathy" -- to have a non-chalent response is to have an unbelieving response to the gospel -- the word "disobey" in Greek is apeithia -- the word for "unbelief" is apeithea...
So it remains WHAT is the Gospel we are believing and obeying???
That the Son of the Living God should come to earth to suffer injustice from mere humans, to be betrayed by a "friend" and to put up with the true non-sense of the false rabbinical hypocritical teachings, to die a naked death on the cross and be given vinegar for his last earthly drink while suffering from loss of blood before His death for us because death was part of the curse from the fall that man could not undo. But then He not only had the power to lay down His life, but the power to raise it up again, received from the Father, for He is the Son of Man.
15 Yet I have written you quite boldly on some points to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me 16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles. He gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
17 Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. 18 I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— 19 by the power of signs and wonders, through the power of the Spirit of God. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ. 20 It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation. 21 Rather, as it is written:
“Those who were not told about him will see,
and those who have not heard will understand.”[a]
Footnotes:
Romans 15:21 Isaiah 52:15 (see Septuagint)
New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.
I know that it is God that chooses us first, loves us first, calls us first, etc. Some of us have to learn things the hard way and then we are chastised because He loves us. Some of us have to learn first hand the things written in the book of Hosea are in fact true. The Bible is truth, the Word of God lives in me and I see it's truths all around me and it's written on my heart. God's glorious peace envelops me and I do my best to follow it because I can't stand to be without it
5 hours ago, Brother James said:
The only thing that I might add is that hearing the Word of God is doing the Words of Jesus
Adam and Eve was God's chosen people to start the human race. Did Adam and Eve teach their children to sacrifice? Do we forget that God has a right to choose us? To choose to accept a sacrifice over another's?
Earlier on I made mention of God's right to choose in a question. I believe everything I do for God is passive. I believe it is God in me that follows Him. If I was dead, death and blind how could I choose Him if He didn't give me life in Him, ears to hear Him and eyes to see Him?
Thank you David! Thank You Lord Jesus for David!!
Intercessor
Beloved of All
1 hour ago, Steven Bobb said:
Let's see if you would agree with this__I'd say faith is the most important. Hearing ,they can resist. Even belief,"the demons also believe and tremble",yet we know no demon is saved.But faith, meaning we accept the Word,and Gods salvation plan,and of course live by it.,and obey it. I would say that's the strongest part of the process.
It all fits together somehow, but Jesus did love when people had faith "Not even in Israel have I found such great faith" (Luke 7:9), and rebuked the disciples when they had "little faith" (too many times to list : )
Jesus and Paul both elevated love to being at a place higher than faith, though. When asked what the greatest command was, Jesus was quick to answer, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength," and, "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Quoting Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 in Mark 12:30-31).
Paul articulates it this way, "There abide these three: faith hope and love, but the greatest of these is love" (1 Cor 13:13). Indeed, it is revealed that "faith works by love" (Gal 5:6).
The 1st Epistle of John is almost a commentary on what it is to love God and even more so what it means to love our neighbor...
1 hour ago, Steven Bobb said:
Also, some Hal Lindsey books I've read focus on this kind of subject. You might like Satan is alive and well on planet Earth.There's a new world coming is another, about the prophecies in the Book of Revelation.I recommend them.{probably out of print,but online..}.
I don't read too many books anymore other than The Bible because God wants us to be voices not echoes (fresh revelation not just someone else's manna). I barely have time to study the Bible but it gets better with each time I read it through. I read a portion of the Old each day and a portion of the New and keep a bookmark in each place and write the date I feel like I am finished that section where I leave off reading. "Give us this day our daily bread" foremostly is a prayer for wisdom and revelation from the Bible. "We cannot live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" is a statement of utter and absolute dependency on God to speak Words of life from the Bible, which Jesus quoted each time with his overcoming the devil in the wilderness...
By the way, since we were little kids it has been explained to us that there is a God who has a wonderful plan for our lives and that there is a devil who wants to thwart it. I awoke this morning with this thought -- Adam and Eve were never warned about a devil, but were only warned not to eat of the tree lest they die, and thus were oblivious to the subtle and nefarious methods of the devil in the way that he seductively markets the forbidden produce, firstly by undermining the authority and veracity of God's Word and then, almost immediately afterwards, by defaming the character of God Himself by making Him out as a liar when he himself was the culprit -- both the liar and the murderer from the beginning (John 5). By the way he used the same desire to be "like the Most High" (Isaiah 14 & Ezek 28) as the backbone of his temptation to Eve. If it worked to make lucifer fall, why go to a different temptation? Also, they were already created in the image and likeness of God -- the devil's lie is huge and the deal he sells them is a picture of tall the lies he continues to sell humanity from that point onward... Trading our "heroes for ghosts, hot ashes for trees, hot air for a cold breeze, cold comfort for change, did you exchange, a walk on part in a war, for a lead role in a cage?"(1) Comfortably Numb was written well after the time of Adolf Hitler, one of the biggest shamsters of all time. Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf, "Because mankind is prone to deception, they are more apt to believe a big lie than a little one." He was as near the devil incarnate as anyone that has walked the earth to this point in history, and a type of anti-christ, but don't think for one minute the signs of the devil are not broadcast night and day like radio waves, except clear to the human eye, except "the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelieving that they might not see the glory of the gospel of glory of Christ, who is the image of God (2 Cor 4:4).
(1) Writer: WATERS, ROGER/GILMOUR, DAVID JON
Copyright: Lyrics © Warner/Chappell Music, Inc.
