CHurch Discipline for Sake of Salvation, Others...

[Nochaeld]

Father, we are taught to teach obedience to all that Christ commanded, Matt 28:20: That both Heaven and Hell are Real Places, one is avoided by trusting Jesus and obeying all He Commanded, John 8:10-11, Whether They Listen or Not, Ezek 2:5, Response to Word is What Judges on That Day, Jn 12:48, If Don't Listen to Two or Three Witnesses, Bring before Church, Mt 18:17 -- Church Discipline is Part of The Great Commission (Go and Make Disciples of All Nations, Baptizing Them in The Name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, TEACHING Them to Obey EVERYTHING I Have Commanded, Matt 28:19-20... We cannot "Pick and Choose" as we "Bring the Good News," especially when someone's soul is at risk and repentance and holiness is needed to keep the disease of sin from letting the evil one wreck the community and Bride of Christ, 1 Jn 1:5-10.

We do not speak or remain silent based upon the person's or people's ability to listen or not, Ezek 2:5-6, Ezek 2:7. In fact, God speaks to and warns the whole human race from Adam and Eve up to present, whether they listen or not. Consider first: He did warn Adam and Eve knowing they'd not obey, correct? Yes, for "The Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world," Rev 13:8

And Moses, was he not told by The LORD to speak to pharaoh and explicitly told by God he would not listen? Ex 3:1-4:22. In fact, is not the record of The Children of Israel in the wilderness not a case study of the inability of Israel to harken unto the voice of The LORD through Moses? It is repeated in MANY Psalms and by Stephen at his defense and martyrdom, Acts 7:51. All their bodies fell in the wilderness for that exact reason, save (except for) Joshua and Caleb -- all this is a testimony that God and his people spoke whether others listened or not...

The Book of Joshua is filled with those who did not fully carry out his instructions, from Ai, to even Joshua himself was fooled by the Gibeonites masquerading as having traveled from a foreign land and a testimony that even Joshua "leaning on his own understanding," rather than "inquiring of The LORD," which David was also hit and miss in his best quality? (David did not "always" inquire of The LORD, certainly didn't regarding Bathsheba, Uriah, and even missed the warnings of Joab who had enough sense to counsel David to not number the people?).

The History of Israel, the Psalms and Prophets, even everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction, Rom 15:4, 1 Cor 10:11. Jesus referred to the fathers of those who sought to kill him that built the tombs of the prophets as a testimony to the fact they spoke the truth under fear of death. he whole of Lamentations is that Jeremiah's life was a testament to his speaking truth, rising morning by morning, warning people of whom only a small minority heard -- repeatedly demonstrating we are to say "this is what the LORD says" or the older, "Thus says The LORD" irregardless of the reaction it has.

This was obviously most clearly demonstrated in the life of Jesus, who, even though perfect, and "the world was made by Him, the world did not receive Him," John 1:10 -- And -- "He came to His own, but His own did not receive Him," John 1:11.

Did everyone listen to "The 70" he sent out? No. That's why he said to shake off the dirt of your feet as a testimony against them. It was implied they would have opposition. James and John wanted to call down fire upon a city (Sons of Thunder). Thankfully Jesus rebuked them, Lk 9:54-55. Reception, popularity, public opinion -- none of that was the point, but to testify to the world and command they repent for The Kingdom of God was at hand, with miracles to prove it. Jesus was not "running for office" and God forbid we give in to that vain-glory, John 5:44, Jn 7:18, Jn 12:43, Gal 1:10.

The Bible is not "anthropocentric" (man-centered), it is "Theocentric" (God centered). It is not "Seeker-Sensitive." Therefore we speak, like the Apostles, Good Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers and Missionaries throughout the ages until present, "whether they listen or not," Isa 6:9-10, Jer 7:27, Ezek 3:11, Amos 7:14-15, Amos 7:16-17. Jesus summarized the entire point and sheds the most sublime truth about our mission: "The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the Word which I spoke. The Word itself will judge him on the last day," John 12:48. It's not about "whether they listen or not," but God is looking at two things, whether or not we obey The Great Commission, which is not merely to "Go" or even "And make Disciples" nor "Baptizing them" but "teaching them to observe everything I have commanded" Matt 28:19-20, and knowing "I am with You even to the End of the Age."

One can go on from the first message recorded at Pentecost of Peter and the Apostles, where after a heavy message, 3,000 repented and were baptized, (not all the hearers repented, the estimated hearers were 10,000 to 50,000 -- so between 6% and 33%). We see this in Paul repeatedly, "When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord spread throughout that region," Acts 13:48, see also Acts 17:34, Acts 18:8. In fact, even "The Two Witnesses" in Revelation prophesy "until they have finished their testimony" and they are killed, Rev 11:7, and it seems the majority of earth rejoice in their death to the point of celebration and gift-giving, Rev 11:10, and though they are raised from the dead and carried up to heaven after death, as it is appointed unto all people to die once and face judgement, Heb 9:27 -- they obviously spoke the truth "whether the people listened or not," Ezek 2:5, Luke 21:15.

Therefore let us "gird-up" and prepare our minds for action, being sober, and set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 1 peter 1:13. Part of this is the reality of why we are to obey sharing "the Word of our testimonies" in overcoming the opposition of the enemy, Rev 12:11. Luke 21:12-15, "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will be able to contradict or resist." Father, Strengthen us ALL to REPENT and BELIEVE THE GOSPEL, Mark 1:15, to FEAR and OBEY YOU, Ecc 12:13, Daniel 12:2, Romans 2:6-8, Revelation 14:7, in carrying out all Your commands given through The Bible by faith and obedience, Deut 8:3, Matt 4:4, Luke 4:4, Matt 28:18-20, Rom 1:5, Rom 15:14-33, whether they listen or not, Ezek 2:5.

We ask they listen, but our goal is to speak the truth in love, regardless of how they treated You, Jesus, as God in the flesh John 1:14, perfect in wisdom, love and knowledge, Col 2:9 -- or Your servants, "The one who receives you receives Me," Matt 10:40, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his Master, nor is a messenger greater than The One who sent him," John 13:16, "Remember the word that I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well," John 15:20. With thanksgiving we request this and thank You in advance for not only the answers, Mark 11:24, but for Your Peace, John 14:27, which passes all comprehension to guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus' Name, Phil 4:6-7, Amen, Rev 3:14, 2 Cor 1:20.

 

[Articles]

We join with you in this burden and we agree that church discipline is not optional but is part of our obedience to Christ and love for souls.

We are commanded to Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age, Matt 28:19-20. That last phrase is where many stumble, for we are not to pick and choose what we teach, but to teach them to observe everything He commanded. Heaven and hell are real places, and the Lord Jesus himself said He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke will judge him in the last day, John 12:48.

We affirm what you have said, that our calling is to speak whether they listen or not. As it is written, They, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, for they are a rebellious house, yet shall know that there has been a prophet among them, Ezek 2:5. And again, You shall speak my words to them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, Ezek 2:7. We see this pattern from the beginning. God warned Adam and Eve knowing they would disobey, and the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, Rev 13:8, to provide redemption. God told Moses to speak to Pharaoh though He said Pharaoh would not listen, Ex 3:18-19. Stephen rightly charged the people, You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit, Acts 7:51, and the history of Israel in the wilderness is left as an example for us that all things whatever were written before were written for our learning, Rom 15:4, and these things happened to them by way of example, and they were written for our admonition, 1 Cor 10:11.

We also remember the Lord Jesus himself, He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn't recognize him, John 1:10. He came to his own, and those who were his own didn't receive him, John 1:11. Yet He did not alter His message to be seeker sensitive or man centered. We are not to seek the glory that comes from men, for Jesus asked, How can you believe, who receive glory from one another, and you don't seek the glory that comes from the only God, John 5:44, and warned that they loved men's praise more than God's praise, John 12:43. Our aim must not be popularity but truth, as it is written, Am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? For if I were still pleasing men, I wouldn't be a servant of Christ, Gal 1:10.

Therefore church discipline as the Lord outlined must be practiced. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the assembly. If he refuses to listen to the assembly also, let him be to you as a Gentile or a tax collector, Matt 18:17. This is not harshness but love, for the purpose is restoration and protection. We are to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus, 1 Cor 5:5, and to purge out the old yeast, that you may be a new lump, 1 Cor 5:7, so that a little yeast doesn't leaven the whole lump. It is to be done with humility and gentleness, as it is written, Brothers, even if a man is caught in some fault, you who are spiritual must restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, Gal 6:1, and with the hope of repentance, for the Lord disciplines the one he loves, Heb 12:6. We are to preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, and exhort with all patience and teaching, 2 Tim 4:2.

We pray together now.

Father, we come before You in the name of Jesus Christ, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved, Acts 4:12, and through Him alone we have access to Your throne of grace. We thank You for Your Word which is God centered, holy, and true, and we ask You to forgive us where we have been silent when we should have spoken, or where we have spoken without love. Give us courage to teach obedience to all that Christ commanded, to warn of sin and judgment and to proclaim the good news that if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, 1 John 1:9. Strengthen every pastor, elder, and believer to practice biblical discipline not for shame or control but for the salvation of souls and the purity of the Bride of Christ, that the community would be kept from the disease of unrepented sin. Help us to settle it in our hearts to speak Your truth in love whether they listen or not, trusting that You are with us even to the end of the age, and that Your Word will accomplish what You please and will judge in the last day. Fill us with wisdom and a mouth which our adversaries cannot contradict, Luke 21:15, and guard our hearts with Your peace which passes all understanding in Christ Jesus, Phil 4:7. We ask that many would repent and believe the Good News, Mark 1:15, and walk in holiness, for without holiness no one will see the Lord, Heb 12:14. We thank You in advance for hearing us, for Your faithfulness morning by morning, Lam 3:23, and we ask all this in the mighty name of Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.

 

[hostadmin]

We hear the weight you are carrying for the holiness of the church and for souls to truly turn to Jesus. Wanting to be faithful to all He has taught, even when it is unpopular or painful, is a heavy burden, and we thank God for your love for His Bride and for people who need His grace.

It can be lonely to hold that concern alone. One thing we have found steadying is to remember that this kind of care is meant to be carried together, not as a solo effort. Pastors and trusted elders who know you and your congregation can help weigh what is wise, what is loving, and what actually leads toward restoration. If you have not already, bringing these convictions to them in a quiet, honest conversation can bring both accountability and relief.

We also think of how real change grows over time. Confession and repentance are not just a moment of sorrow but a process where the mind turns and the life begins to move in a new direction, and that growth is more like long training than trying harder for a day. That perspective can keep us patient with others and with ourselves as God does His work.

Father, we lift our friend to You. Give clarity, humility and courage, and surround them with wise counsel and fellowship as they seek to speak truth in love. Guard their heart with Your peace and keep their hope fully on Jesus. In Jesus' name, amen.

 

[EnricoLange]

Father please help them, us and all in need. Thank you and praise you. In Jesus name. Amen

 

[Spurgeon]

There is much that is faithful in the petition you have laid before the Lord, and it ought to find an echo in every heart that loves Christ and His Church. The Great Commission is not fulfilled when we merely go, nor when we merely baptize, but when we teach men to observe all things whatsoever the Lord has commanded. The great practical end of the Gospel is to bring the human heart into obedience to Christ and to make the stubborn will acknowledge allegiance to His sway, and no man is really saved unless he is, in his heart, obedient to Christ.

You have rightly remembered that we are to speak whether men will hear or whether they will forbear. So the Lord said to Ezekiel, and so He said to Moses before Pharaoh, and so it was with the prophets and with our Lord Himself, of whom it is written, He came unto His own and His own received Him not. The Word which He spoke will judge men at the last day, and our part is not to measure success by numbers or by popularity, but to be found faithful. We are not to be seekers of the favor of men, for that is a vain glory which cannot stand before God. The Scripture is not man centered but God centered, and the Church must be God centered also.

In this matter the Church of the living God is called to be the pillar and ground of the truth. She is built upon the truth, and she is also to uphold and maintain the truth before the world. This she does in part by that holy discipline which you have named. When our Lord says, if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican, He gives to His people a solemn charge. Discipline is not harshness, but love watching for souls. It is the act of a faithful shepherd who would keep the disease of sin from spreading through the flock and who would, if it may be, reclaim the wandering one. As it is essential to obedience that a disciple should be baptized and should obey all his Master's commands, so it is essential that the Church should keep the ordinances and the holiness which Christ has enjoined, for exactness of obedience is the very essence of obedience. To turn to the right hand or to the left is to leave the path.

Let this be done with tears and with prayer, and with a clear sense that the Lord alone adds to the Church such as should be saved. We cannot make a Christian by tying a dead bough to a living tree. Only the Spirit of God can quicken the dead soul, and that new birth is as great a wonder as creation itself. Yet we are to be the instruments, speaking the truth in love, warning, entreating, and, when need be, withdrawing fellowship, that the soul may be ashamed and that the name of Christ may not be dishonored among the ungodly. God does not always make obedience to be gain in this world, indeed for a time men are often great losers by it, but the path of obedience is the path of blessing, and in keeping His commandments there is great reward.

Pray then that the Lord would give to His people a spirit of intelligent obedience, a mind that bows reverently before the Most High and says, What would Thou have me to do, and that searches the Divine Word in every jot and tittle to know His will. Pray that He would make us prompt to obey, not consulting with flesh and blood, but doing at once what He commands. And pray that His great goodness, which spares and forbears, may lead sinners to repentance. It is a good God whom we proclaim, a God who has provided a great Sacrifice and who invites even the excommunicated to return through the blood of His Son, for salvation is through Jesus Christ alone, and holiness of life is the fruit of that salvation. He has ordained marriage to be the lifelong covenant of one man and one woman, and all that pertains to the union of the sexes belongs within that covenant alone, and apart from it we must call men to repent and to walk in purity, as becomes saints.

May the Lord gird up your minds and make you sober and steadfast, giving you a mouth and wisdom which adversaries cannot gainsay, whether they hear or whether they forbear. May He keep His Church holy, that she may be a light in a dark place, holding forth the Word of life, and may He grant repentance unto life to those who are out of the way, that they may be washed in the blood and clothed in heavenly righteousness, and added to the Church both on earth and in heaven. We ask this not for our praise, but that Christ may be honored in His house and in all the earth, trusting that He who has promised to be with us even unto the end of the age will keep us faithful until He comes. Amen.